Dart falls on it's face.

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One thing that I have not changed is the factory ignition box. Do you think that I need an orange box? Could this be the problem?
 
Why not upgrade the ign to MSD or my favorite,the FBO? FBO makes more sense if you want to use the factory ign harness.I ran one for 4 years on my 318.It's still out there and still running after 7 years.
 
Funny I was just thinking about what box you were running?(while tucking mama in)I had a similar issue lastyear.I swapped to the chrome from the orange one.Was a 360 with X heads.
 
Yeah those factory boxes are only good for about 6k. If you find that to be the problem I would go with the chrome box. I`ve personally had problems with the orange boxes and have read of many others that have had issues with them too.
 
YOUR LEAN LEAN LEAN :drinkers::drinkers: PLEASE GIVE THE MOTOR SOMETHING TO DRINK>>>This is your spark plug on a 62 jet :pale: (goast white)

\\\\ GO TO AT LEAST 68 JETS \\\\37 FRONT PUMP NOZZLE(SQUIRTER)
34 TOTAL TIMING

I have never went that low with a performance cam or rpm motor.
67 is the lowest i ever went, and it was too lean at w.o.t. power.
You will feel the power gain you just gave the car with a bigger jet.
Drive it for a while and then check the plug again.(same plug)after jetting up.
 
Fuel pressure seems a little low..Holley red pump.. not the best pump to be running,i'd run the 3/8" all the way to the carb...
 
Sounds like you are totally running out of fuel or spark. Not sure if incorrect jetting or anything else mechanical (valves, springs, etc) would make it totally shut down. If it were something like that, I would expect it to miss but not cut out completely.

Could it be something simple, like your fuel system needs to be vented/non-vented, etc? Since you changed the fuel system, you could be doing opposite of what is required.

Is your pump by the tank (push) or by the engine (pull)? Should be closest to the tank for maximum fuel delivery.

Can you reproduce the problem by just mashing the throttle when you standing still, or does it need an actual load on it to do it?
 
I would think the stock 66 jets that come in that holley would be close, I wouldn't think you would need to go down 4 jet sizes, but what elevation are you at?

the ignition box stock or orange is a pos for what you are doing
[over 5800rpm], I mean to say that there are better units out there
[chome box/MSD]and why mess around.

unless you have acceleration/off the line issues, leave the shooter alone.
like T said though you would normally see a 35+ or so nozzle with 3000 stall.
 
Badart said:
My motor seems like it is running out of fuel at high rpms sometimes. It can pull hard to 6K in first and second sometimes, but other times it seems like it is running out of fuel. It acts like someone turns off the key at around 5 K for a couple of seconds then it cuts up then runs normal.

Here is some specs on the motor. 318 9.0-1, 904, magnum heads, XE 256 cam, hookers, 3" exhaust, holley 4160 600 cfm, fuel cell with sump, holley red pump.

I have a fuel pressure gauge before the carb and I am getting a constant 5 1/2 psi and flows like a river when disconnected. I am running a high capacity fuel filter before the pump and another filter before the carb. I have checked both filters and they are clean. I am feeding my first filter from the fuel cell with 8an and also 8an to the pump, then I am going to 6an then to the factory fuel line. Is the factory fuel line too small to power my little 318? Should I step up to all 3/8"?
Click to expand...

This seems to be an intermittant problem....you say "sometimes" it happens, which would lead me to believe that the jetting is fine. The first thing I would do is tee in a fuel hose to a pressure gauge that you can hold inside of the car while you are mashing the throttle, and try to reproduce that cut out....if the fuel pressure isn't falling off at high RPM/high load, you've eliminated that possibility. Also, sometimes a tell-tale sign of ignition break up is your tach jumping around. You could hook up a voltmeter to the "+" side of the coil too.....and get yourself a co-pilot to monitor it, while you rip around trying to reproduce the cut-out....see if you're losing it at any point.
 
jeryst said:
Sounds like you are totally running out of fuel or spark. Not sure if incorrect jetting or anything else mechanical (valves, springs, etc) would make it totally shut down. If it were something like that, I would expect it to miss but not cut out completely.

Could it be something simple, like your fuel system needs to be vented/non-vented, etc? Since you changed the fuel system, you could be doing opposite of what is required.

I have mounted my fuel pump and filter below and behind my cell and about 1' from it. So it is pushing fuel to the pump. The cell is vented fine, because I can fill a gas can pretty quick with just the pump running.

Is your pump by the tank (push) or by the engine (pull)? Should be closest to the tank for maximum fuel delivery.

Can you reproduce the problem by just mashing the throttle when you standing still, or does it need an actual load on it to do it?
Click to expand...

I may be a little lean, because sometimes the car bogs randomly.
 
Thanks everyone. I have just gotten the car on the road in the last week after building this engine and I am still working out all of the bugs. The entire drive train is new. I will buy at least a chrome box, order a jet kit and new squirter, and pop in a new set of plugs and see what happens. Thanks everyone so much. FABO Rocks.
 
Either way your jets are easy to change as is your ign box. Let us know if it makes a difference. It could be spark scatter or leaning out but it's real hard to tell from here! Change something and get back to us bud!
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
I would think the stock 66 jets that come in that holley would be close, I wouldn't think you would need to go down 4 jet sizes, but what elevation are you at?

the ignition box stock or orange is a pos for what you are doing
[over 5800rpm], I mean to say that there are better units out there
[chome box/MSD]and why mess around.

unless you have acceleration/off the line issues, leave the shooter alone.
like T said though you would normally see a 35+ or so nozzle with 3000 stall.
Click to expand...

Thanks W&C. I live at 5,500' elevation, so I thought the jetting would be about right. I have heard that for every 2,000' that you go down 1 jet, so 62 seemed pretty close, but they are easy to change and I will play it them.
 
needsaresto said:
Either way your jets are easy to change as is your ign box. Let us know if it makes a difference. It could be spark scatter or leaning out but it's real hard to tell from here! Change something and get back to us bud!
Click to expand...

Will do, thanks.
 
Oh,make the changes one t a time.Then you'll know what helps and what doesnt;ei change the jets first.Then change the box etc..
 
Does it do it if you leave the car in high gear and run it up light throttle, then nail it to 6K? If you are looking for a budget module, find a Standard Ignition LX-101. It wont pull out timing like the orange box and the quality is more consistant. I've got 3 potential spots.. The carb.. is it new? Crap in it somehere? The ignition box... Is it grounded well? Is teh egnine grounded well? The valve springs... I think you should have enough with the GM 3100 springs but I can't recall what the presures are. Which is why I ask if it will ever rev beyond 6, or just in first. If it never would... I'd pull a spring and test it.
 
moper said:
Does it do it if you leave the car in high gear and run it up light throttle, then nail it to 6K? If you are looking for a budget module, find a Standard Ignition LX-101. It wont pull out timing like the orange box and the quality is more consistant. I've got 3 potential spots.. The carb.. is it new? Crap in it somehere? The ignition box... Is it grounded well? Is teh egnine grounded well? The valve springs... I think you should have enough with the GM 3100 springs but I can't recall what the presures are. Which is why I ask if it will ever rev beyond 6, or just in first. If it never would... I'd pull a spring and test it.
Click to expand...

This is the first time that I have really opened it up to 5,500-6K. I have been taking it fairly easy to break in the motor a little. It really only does it when I hold it to the floor for an extended period of time. I still think that it may be getting lean or running out of fuel.

The carb is a rebuild that I bought. It had new reusable gaskets in it when I got it. I went ahead and cleaned it out and replaced gaskets anyway. I will check all of my grounds again, but I think that they are fine. I looked at my shooter and it is a 31, which seems small to me and would explain my bog sometimes. I have ordered a chrome box, 33-36 shooters, and 64-67 primary jets. We will see what happens and keep you guys informed.
 
Badart said:
Thanks W&C. I live at 5,500' elevation, so I thought the jetting would be about right. I have heard that for every 2,000' that you go down 1 jet, so 62 seemed pretty close, but they are easy to change and I will play it them.
Click to expand...

That's assuming that it's jetted right to begin with at sea level. Don't forget that with all the changes you've made it's sucking way more air up in rpm range. I'm at a mile high and am running 74's all around on a .040 over 360 with a Lunati 60401 cam, 10.2:1 comp ratio and a 650 dp. The stock jets were 68's.
 
ramcharger said:
That's assuming that it's jetted right to begin with at sea level. Don't forget that with all the changes you've made it's sucking way more air up in rpm range. I'm at a mile high and am running 74's all around on a .040 over 360 with a Lunati 60401 cam, 10.2:1 comp ratio and a 650 dp. The stock jets were 68's.
Click to expand...

not to side track but we both know that carb is too small if you've up'd the jets 5 sizes.
you are running pv's , explains the 74's across, otherwise 82 secondary.

I don't think his 256* cam'd 318 is gonna pull that 600 very hard.

he may be fine with the jets, but has he done any vacuum checking and have the correct pv installed?

I would keep the jets no more 9 sizes apart, so find out what secondary plate you have to convert the # to jet#'s and see if you are too fat on the secondary side, along with timing...find out when [rpm] the full advance comes in.

just a drunkin ponder.
 
Badart said:
It really only does it when I hold it to the floor for an extended period of time. I still think that it may be getting lean or running out of fuel.
Click to expand...

That sounds notoriously like a fuel delivery problem....
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
not to side track but we both know that carb is too small if you've up'd the jets 5 sizes.
you are running pv's , explains the 74's across, otherwise 82 secondary.

I don't think his 256* cam'd 318 is gonna pull that 600 very hard.

he may be fine with the jets, but has he done any vacuum checking and have the correct pv installed?

I would keep the jets no more 9 sizes apart, so find out what secondary plate you have to convert the # to jet#'s and see if you are too fat on the secondary side, along with timing...find out when [rpm] the full advance comes in.

just a drunkin ponder.
Click to expand...

You are correct in that the carb (650 dp) and the manifold (Weiand Action+) are too small. How do I know? First I added a 1" open spacer and felt a huge gain from 2500 rpm on up with no effect in off idle performance. Then I added another 1/2" open spacer and felt more gains. Not just a little 10hp kick but literally it felt like a 40hp difference.

This engine begs for an eddy rpm performer and a 750. It'll buck and snort with anything less than 74's in the primaries (in this cool weather) in the mid range and the plugs will run dead white and not color at all. I'm running a 6.5 primary PV and there is no provision for a secondary PV on the metering block (it's list number 4777). At first I tried the jet stagger and it wouldn't run past 5-5.2K and it would pop and snap through the exhaust, almost like hitting a rev limter (yes, I checked, mine was set at 6k) or valve float. This was hard to check on public roads for obvious reasons, but I found a couple of good, long entrance ramps to, ah, road test on. I had to keep dropping the secondary jets until it reved clean. In the summer I have to drop the secondaries to 71 or 72 and primaries to 73. Why the wierd stagger? From watching the plugs, I think that fuel distrubution sucks on that Weiand, that's my best guess.

Keep in mind that I wasn't suggesting that he start that big, just that he may not need to drop the jets so far just due to altitude. If I were him I'd start with 68's, test ride and check plugs, rinse, repeat. :read2:
 
make sure your throttle cable is ajusted right. Some times that will do it. Ask me how I now. LOL
 
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