daylight driver

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tomcatx5

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I have a '68 dart with a '78 360. I have the mopar orange box elec. Ignition. I recently put a new alternator on and it has 1 field wire. I have had some wiring "issues" to say the least. I'm not sure if I have the wrong alternator or it is something wired wrong or both.if the headlights are on the battery dies fast. I replaced the voltage regulator which according to diagrams I've seen could be wrong as well. It is rectangular, silver with a wire on top and one on bottom. I have also replaced the starter relay with still no luck charging. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Oh by the way inside the volt. Reg. Looks like an electronic switchboard
 
OK, sounds like you have the "what would be expected" 69/ earlier alternator/ regulator. Your regulator should look something like this:

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It is NOT recommended that you use an original type 69/ earlier MECHANICAL regulator with electronic ignition. However most replacement 69/ earlier regulator are actually all--electronic. You can tell by looking at the bottom. If there are two large wirewound resistors on there, it is the old mechanical type. If there is not, you have an electronic replacement.


First order of business, if you have not, is to arm yourself with a few necessary tools. Go down to Radio Shack and buy a bag or two of test clip leads. If you don't have one, spend 35 bucks or so and get a multimeter. The auto parts stores often have models which are somewhat optimized for automotive use. Also get a 12V test lamp

Now make a few basic tests. Charge up the battery, start and run the car at a fast idle to simulate a low or medium cruising RPM, IE down the road 30-35 mph

Measure battery voltage right at the battery. A good system, warmed up, should show between 13.8---14.2V. Limits are not less than 13.5, nor more than 14.5

I'm guessing "not." If you DO show this, turn on the headlights, heater blower, etc, and remeasure. I'm guessing it CERTAINLY will drop at this point.

Now move your meter to the alternator output stud, the great big stud with a big black wire. This is NOT ground, it is the battery charge lead.

See if there is a substantial difference in that reading compared to battery. If the reading differs from the battery by no more than a volt or two, consider this "OK" for now.

Now unhook the green field wire at the alternator and hook a clip lead from the exposed alternator field terminal to a battery source, such as the battery stud (big stud) on the start relay.

Recheck battery and alternator stud voltage, and if the voltage has not come up above 13--13.5, you probably have a bad alternator.

If the voltage HAS come up some (this will now be unregulated) you may have a bad regulator or something bad in the field wiring.

So if you DO get charging in the above test, hook the field back up. Unhook the two regulator wires, and hook a clip lead between them, IE hooking the IGN terminal wire off the regulator to the green field wire.

Repeat running the engine, check if battery voltage goes up. If not, Check the field wiring. You should have near battery voltage at the clip lead connection with key on/ engine off. Recheck down at the alternator field. You should have battery voltage there as well

If the above test results in charge, remove the regulator, clean the ground area around the mount, tighten the regulator back down and retry. If this does not cause charging, replace the regulator.

To boil this down into simple terms

1---Hook battery voltage directly to alternator field to check if alternator can charge.

2---Check that the alternator stud is actually electrically connected to the battery

3--If neither of above results in alternator output, repair or replace the alternator

4---If the above tests result in charge, check regulator field wiring, reground the regulator, and last, replace the regulator if no change

What do you have in the way of wiring diagrams or shop manual?

If you DO buy another alternator, get a middle 70's "squareback" and then you can either use it with the old style regulator (69/ earlier) by grounding one field, or add one more wire and convert to the 70/ later regulator. These squareback design alternators produce more output at lower RPM

Squareback alternator:

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The alternator is definitely charging all except when the volt reg is hooked up. I made sure it was grounded with no change. With a jumper wire between field & ignition it charged up to 15 volts with higher rpms. If i hook it back to the voltage reg about 9 volts. However if i leave the voltage reg.unhooked, with no jumper wire.it appears to be a perfect 12 volts at low or high rpms. Now I'm really confroozed????:By the way thanks.alot for such a detailed response 67 Dart 273. Just so I'm certain, the voltage regulator u showed is what I should have, correct? Mine is not quite as thick & silver in color but wire hookups appear the same
 
as stated above, it would be wise to convert to the squareback altenator, add one wire to the regulator wiring, and use the 1973 and newer voltage regulator, its the flat one, you can buy at any auto parts store,,,you will need the 3 wire pig tail to do this

now as for your electronic orange box,,that system requires at least 10.5 volts to run the orange box, when you convert a 1969 and older car over to a mopar electronic ignition and if your still running the single field altenator, you need to use the mopar performace voltage regulator (blue in color and flat) or your mopar ignition system will not run properly,, its an easy conversion,the down side is,you can not buy that BLUE mopar regulator at a parts store,,only from a mopar vendor,,,

the 1969 and earlier voltage reg is not a constant charge regulator,,that is why you have serging headlites at idel in gear,, when you convert to the 1973 and newer system, or use the BLUE mopar performace regulator all your charging problems will go away as long as your altenator and wiring are good,,,
 
12 is not charging.

1--If hooking the regulator up drives the ignition wire down to 9, you have a voltage drop in the ignition harness. What this means is, when you get the regulator replaced, it will likely OVERcharge, but let's deal with one thing at a time

2--What you have posted indicates probably a bad regulator. The "short" case indicates you already had a solid state replacement, but now it sounds as if you need a new one.

3--Once again, with a properly working regulator, and warmed up engine/ regulator, the battery should run--while running -- at 13.8---14.2.

4--What fishy says is correct to a point--the original regulator is not recommended for electronic ignition, but the reality is that MOST regulators you buy for replacement are already electronic. As I said, look underneath---if there is NOT two great big wire wound resistors, it is a solid state replacement regulator.
 
Thanks fishy & 273. I went & got a new alternator with two field hookups, a new voltage regulator, and pigtail to hook it up. Finally it's charging however you were right 273, it appears to be overcharging. Around 14 with headlights on, and 15 with no lights. Is this a bad thing? The car seems to run great and haven't had to use my jump box or csbles in a couple of days. My concern is that it's charging too much. I guess I just need to know if this could damage anything. Thanks again for all the help guys.
 
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