DartSportDude
Old school A-body owner
I seen people (mostly serious racers) cut out the entire section of the hood below the scoop. It's usually done to accommodate a tall intake or air cleaner that protrudes above the top of the hood.
Demon and Dart Sport Scoop Location
- Thread starter 7demon2
- Start date
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Here's some pics of the Duster scoop I got from www.aarqualityfiberglass.com back in 2001.
I mounted it back more slightly as I liked it better 1.25" from the back of hood. I cut the center out about 12" so I could run a 10x3" air cleaner on the tall Performer RPM manifold and 850cfm TQ carb with adaptor & insulator gasket. As you know the engine is slightly offset in a Mopar so if you need a bigger hole for a bigger air cleaner youll just want to cut the whole triangle out but you'll need to cut the bracing also most likely. I'm just on the left & rear edge of the bracing on my Duster hood. So you can imagine how much for a 14" air cleaner.
No Dusters of any year got this scoop from the factory but it was available thru the dealerships. They installed it without cutting any openings as far as I've seen.
Nice thread and good info!
I mounted it back more slightly as I liked it better 1.25" from the back of hood. I cut the center out about 12" so I could run a 10x3" air cleaner on the tall Performer RPM manifold and 850cfm TQ carb with adaptor & insulator gasket. As you know the engine is slightly offset in a Mopar so if you need a bigger hole for a bigger air cleaner youll just want to cut the whole triangle out but you'll need to cut the bracing also most likely. I'm just on the left & rear edge of the bracing on my Duster hood. So you can imagine how much for a 14" air cleaner.
No Dusters of any year got this scoop from the factory but it was available thru the dealerships. They installed it without cutting any openings as far as I've seen.
Nice thread and good info!
Old_Demon
Well-Known Member
I bought a '72 Demon 340 new back in the day. It came from the factory (note not dealer installed) with the snorkel scoop and stripe package. There were no holes cut in the hood as in those for the dual scoops, nor any cutouts of any kind.
7demon2
Registered User #1824
really i think you are reading too much into this. i am not the original owner of my demon , but i have spoken to all of the owners. including the original owner, so i know it's complete history. i know it has never been wrecked. i also know this is it's original sheet metal, and hood. again chrysler had intendet to have a cold air package available from the factory. they also had a 6 pack setup intended for it as well. these things never made it into production, but chrysler did do the holes on the hp cars w/ the 340's. the mounting locations for both scoops can be seen in both pics as the hoods are interchangeable to be used on both /6, 318, and 340 if need to be. the scoop package was an option for all of these cars w/ the 340's. if you opted for the scoop you got the holes. if you didn't then you got a solid hood. if you have a scoop w/ no holes then it was added at some point plain and simple. i have information to account for this but cannot lay my hands on it for the moment......again i will not post anything reguarding tech information that is not 100% accurate. 70-76 a bodies i know very well. i get the chance to speak to, and ask questions from galen govier every year here in the spring at the mopar madness show held here at va. motorsports park. this has been very helpful to clear up some things that i too have been wondering about. in the first issue of mopar enthusist, there was an article there on a untouched 72 demon 340. check it out and look at the hood.........lastly without the holes being there there would be a considerible amount of air going into the scoop with no place for it to go. this could cause the fiberglass scoop in higher speeds to crack and possibly break off the car. i don't think the manufacture would want the liability for that. they could have sealed the scoop up and not worried about it but they didn't.....
briankaplan
greenduster
I got my scoop from ShowCars out of Canada. I was not happy
with the quality. I say get one from AAR. Minr had sheet metal
tabs to mount it. It bolted on ok but not impressed with it.
The finish wasn't good either. I cot a 15in. round hole to
clear the filter. With the Eddy Air gap I had to take a raised
base air cleaner bottom and bend it down slightly. It fits
right at the hood line with a 4in. filter. Just enough room
for the wing nut. Tha whole thing would of fit under the hood
with a drop base and 3in. filter. I just wanted to get it as
close to the scoop as possible. I still want to make a cold
air box for it.
with the quality. I say get one from AAR. Minr had sheet metal
tabs to mount it. It bolted on ok but not impressed with it.
The finish wasn't good either. I cot a 15in. round hole to
clear the filter. With the Eddy Air gap I had to take a raised
base air cleaner bottom and bend it down slightly. It fits
right at the hood line with a 4in. filter. Just enough room
for the wing nut. Tha whole thing would of fit under the hood
with a drop base and 3in. filter. I just wanted to get it as
close to the scoop as possible. I still want to make a cold
air box for it.
DartSportDude
Old school A-body owner
Well, I must say I tend to agree with Old Demon. Unfortunately, I have yet to locate a verified, original 72 or 73 a-body with these fresh air holes used with the snorkel scoop. I'm not questioning your sources or background information, but having a vehicle like this myself (and having purchased it at the time these vehicles were only 3-4 years and still plentiful in original form on the street), I've found no evidence to support the notion of these fresh air holes installed at the time of vehicle manufacture. Over the years, I've done a considerable amount of research, too.
The factory hood used on all these vehicles shows cutouts in the bracing for the holes in the dual scoop locations -- but there are no similar cutouts in the bracing in the snorkel scoop location. I think that is very telling.
As for using the snorkel scoop without fresh air holes, I can testify that it's no problem at all. As I said, my scoop was added by the dealer in 1976 without adding the holes, and it held up fine with no damage for nearly 30 years. I only added the fresh air holes two years ago at the time I repainted the vehicle (the holes look good, plus there may be minimal performance advantages to having a flow of fresh air into the engine bay -- that's why I decided to add them).
I'd love for somebody to produce factory documentation (i.e., vehicle order form, broadcast sheet decoding, etc.) proving this performance feature in 72 and 73, but unfortunately, nothing has turned up.
Oh well...
The factory hood used on all these vehicles shows cutouts in the bracing for the holes in the dual scoop locations -- but there are no similar cutouts in the bracing in the snorkel scoop location. I think that is very telling.
As for using the snorkel scoop without fresh air holes, I can testify that it's no problem at all. As I said, my scoop was added by the dealer in 1976 without adding the holes, and it held up fine with no damage for nearly 30 years. I only added the fresh air holes two years ago at the time I repainted the vehicle (the holes look good, plus there may be minimal performance advantages to having a flow of fresh air into the engine bay -- that's why I decided to add them).
I'd love for somebody to produce factory documentation (i.e., vehicle order form, broadcast sheet decoding, etc.) proving this performance feature in 72 and 73, but unfortunately, nothing has turned up.
Oh well...
7demon2
Registered User #1824
that is your choice, not mine.
there isn't a need for braceing to be cut out on the 72,73 demon and dart sports. isn't that obviouse as it is a different scoop and the braceing isn't in the way......
again you added the scoop yourself.....the factory couldn't justify the liability with the chance the scoop could come off or break. you adding it is just the point i was trying to make.....
this would not have been listed on the order form( holes or no holes) unless it was a seperate option. when you got the performance hood package w/ scoop and stripes this was included. think of it this way how would a dealer go about selling a hole option to a customer?:-k that would have been a hard sell at best....
i tell you what, i will get a responce from Mr. Norm. on this issue. he will have an answer as he was a great dealer of performance cars in the hayday of mopar. i will also go to my local dodge dealer and get them to make a copy of the hood page from a 71 and 72 demon showing the scoop with the doughnut gaskets. if the picture shows the gaskets w/ part numbers then maybe this, with mr. Norms responce will convince you....
DartSportDude
Old school A-body owner
7Demon2:
I'm not going to put a lot of credence in Mr. Norm's recollection at this point; as documented by Mopar Collector's Guide in this month's issue, he couldn't even recall that Grand Spaulding advertised a 73 Dart Sport 340 GSS in 1973. Besides, his dealership offered a Demon GSS with a special fresh air package they installed on their own. I think his records from the 71-73 period will be conflicting at best.
Also, I'd be very surprised if a current Dodge dealership has any definitive records on 72-73 special order options. These guys usually hire kids who think the automotive industry began in 2000 or so!
Don't misunderstand my interest in this matter: I'd be very happy if you or someone else could come up with proof (i.e., solid factory documentation only) that the fresh air holes were factory installed in 72-73. It would just add to the desirability of the my own year and model of vehicle.
When I installed my factory hood scoop in the mid-70s, I asked the dealer about the fresh option I knew existed on the 71 models. His response: the snorkel scoop is a cosmetic option only. In over 30s years, I've found no evidence otherwise (and believe me, as the owner of multiple A-body 340 cars, I've looked!)
Good luck with your search. I hope you come up with something.
I'm not going to put a lot of credence in Mr. Norm's recollection at this point; as documented by Mopar Collector's Guide in this month's issue, he couldn't even recall that Grand Spaulding advertised a 73 Dart Sport 340 GSS in 1973. Besides, his dealership offered a Demon GSS with a special fresh air package they installed on their own. I think his records from the 71-73 period will be conflicting at best.
Also, I'd be very surprised if a current Dodge dealership has any definitive records on 72-73 special order options. These guys usually hire kids who think the automotive industry began in 2000 or so!
Don't misunderstand my interest in this matter: I'd be very happy if you or someone else could come up with proof (i.e., solid factory documentation only) that the fresh air holes were factory installed in 72-73. It would just add to the desirability of the my own year and model of vehicle.
When I installed my factory hood scoop in the mid-70s, I asked the dealer about the fresh option I knew existed on the 71 models. His response: the snorkel scoop is a cosmetic option only. In over 30s years, I've found no evidence otherwise (and believe me, as the owner of multiple A-body 340 cars, I've looked!)
Good luck with your search. I hope you come up with something.
Old_Demon
Well-Known Member
Well, all I can say is I know what I bought in 1972 and it had no holes in the hood. And for the 5-6 years I owned it I never had a problem with the scoop cracking or any other issues. And I know the hood, scoops and stripes were factory installed, since they were listed on the sticker. Sorry if you don't believe me 7demon2, but I promise I'm not that old and senile yet.
7demon2
Registered User #1824
ok i had a chance as promised to swing by my local dodge dealership. they have been in business along time and have alot of old books. i asked the parts guy if he could help me. he went and brought back both a 73 and a 72 parts book out of the back. we then looked up the parts. the bad is there is / was no picture of the parts in question. the good is both books listed the very part w/ numbers that matched for both years. the guys in the back both said that they knew what i was looking for, and could remember seeing and selling the parts over the years. anyway i then asked him if there was anyway to make a copy of the page showing the part description and number. it wasn't easy getting that big book to copy on the copier, so the copy isn't the best. you can read it though about midway down in the third column. it says " baffle a/scoop water (sports hood). part#2998881. it lists 2 being 1 for each hole. the third column is dart/demon. if you look down further in the same column near the bottom you can see the stripes listed and the scoop and scoop nuts to secure it on. the book is dated november 1972 in the right corner. now if the holes weren't being put in then why would they list the water baffels for it in the parts book for 72 demon and 73 dartsport? i still haven't been able to locate the article for this but i am still looking.....hope this helps shed some light.
This scoop was taken from a 72 Demon which had the 4 in . holes that have been mentioned in the post's earlier, we installed holes in our duster hood from the measurments off the demon hood, after a few years we installed the larger hole for fresh air, the larger hole is good for about .300 in good air.The carb. is not centered in hood, it is about 1 in. toward passenger side of center, you will find this by accident if you put too tall of air cleaner on the carb. ,then shut hood . ouch .You have protruding dent . LOL . could not find a pic. just video.
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Locomotion
Well-Known Member
I wish I still had the guy's name in NC so I could ask if he still had the VIN and fender tag codes. But I bought a hood w/holes, grommets and scoop from a '73 Dart Sport, baby blue with black stripes and a 318! It was apparently a option with the 318 as well as the 340. The car showed no signs of being wrecked or modified as I pulled several other parts off of it too.
russduanegreen
Well-Known Member
Love The 72 Scoop, Put One On My 71 DEMON, WISH I HAD YOUR CORRECT MEASUREMENTS WHEN I PUT IT ON, Oh Well its close........
DartSportDude
Old school A-body owner
7Demon2,
Thanks for checking on this information. Your local Dodge dealer is certainly more customer-oriented than the one in my area; such a request at my dealer would have been met with a snide laugh and a not-so-nice "get lost, old timer, we don't stock parts for those cars anymore!"
Anyway, back to what you found out. The fact that the 72 parts book lists the "baffle a/scoop water" (I guess that somehow references the fresh air hole gaskets) as being available for a 1972 Demon is not that surprising. I think we all agree that the snorkel hood scoop, with accompanying clean air holes, WILL FIT this model (as your photos above demonstrate). For that matter, the same can be said for any 71-74 (and maybe 75-76) Demon/Duster.
What this still does not answer is whether the combination of snorkel scoop, fresh air holes/grommets and hood black-out stripe were ever offered as a standard new vehicle option, from the factory, on the 72 and 73 Demon/Dart Sport A-bodies.
The fact that the parts numbers are listed in a 72 Parts Book is interesting, but IMHO, not definitive. I still think you need a broadcast sheet option code for this entire package before making a firm conclusion. Unfortunately, the "sport hood package" called out in the factory de-coders does not specifically list what is included with this package.
As you suggested before, it might be good to get Galen Glovier's opinion on this matter. Perhaps he would have access to additional factory specifications.
Since we have the word of at least one original 72 Demon owner that his new car equipped with snorkel scoop and stripe did not have the fresh air holes, plus the word of the Dodge dealer who did my scoop installation back in 1976 that the snorkel scoop was a cosmetic option only, it might be good to get Galen's opinion.
You already indicated that it would have made no sense for Dodge to offer the "holes" as an additional option above and beyond the scoop and stripes themselves. I agree with you. I think it's most probable that the sport hood package was an "all or nothing deal;" either it was scoop and stripe only, or it was all three -- scoop, stripe and fresh air components.
Do you agree?
Thanks for checking on this information. Your local Dodge dealer is certainly more customer-oriented than the one in my area; such a request at my dealer would have been met with a snide laugh and a not-so-nice "get lost, old timer, we don't stock parts for those cars anymore!"
Anyway, back to what you found out. The fact that the 72 parts book lists the "baffle a/scoop water" (I guess that somehow references the fresh air hole gaskets) as being available for a 1972 Demon is not that surprising. I think we all agree that the snorkel hood scoop, with accompanying clean air holes, WILL FIT this model (as your photos above demonstrate). For that matter, the same can be said for any 71-74 (and maybe 75-76) Demon/Duster.
What this still does not answer is whether the combination of snorkel scoop, fresh air holes/grommets and hood black-out stripe were ever offered as a standard new vehicle option, from the factory, on the 72 and 73 Demon/Dart Sport A-bodies.
The fact that the parts numbers are listed in a 72 Parts Book is interesting, but IMHO, not definitive. I still think you need a broadcast sheet option code for this entire package before making a firm conclusion. Unfortunately, the "sport hood package" called out in the factory de-coders does not specifically list what is included with this package.
As you suggested before, it might be good to get Galen Glovier's opinion on this matter. Perhaps he would have access to additional factory specifications.
Since we have the word of at least one original 72 Demon owner that his new car equipped with snorkel scoop and stripe did not have the fresh air holes, plus the word of the Dodge dealer who did my scoop installation back in 1976 that the snorkel scoop was a cosmetic option only, it might be good to get Galen's opinion.
You already indicated that it would have made no sense for Dodge to offer the "holes" as an additional option above and beyond the scoop and stripes themselves. I agree with you. I think it's most probable that the sport hood package was an "all or nothing deal;" either it was scoop and stripe only, or it was all three -- scoop, stripe and fresh air components.
Do you agree?
7demon2
Registered User #1824
i totally agree, all or nothing.
"I think we all agree that the snorkel hood scoop, with accompanying clean air holes, WILL FIT this model (as your photos above demonstrate). For that matter, the same can be said for any 71-74 (and maybe 75-76) Demon/Duster."
the scoop will fit all of these years this is true, but it was only offered on 72 demons, and 73 dart sports from the factory. the scoop could be bought and put on any car including dusters. if you look closely you can see the part numbers for the scoop #3573698 and the 8 nuts that are needed for attaching it to the hood #6028172
"it might be good to get Galen Glovier's opinion on this matter. Perhaps he would have access to additional factory specifications."
i can do this but it won't be until the spring, in april. this is when i see him at the spring mopar maddness show here every year. if i try to contact him now he would charge me 75.00 to get the answer. i can get more for free in the show that is why i ask alot of questions when i have seen him at the shows. he is really pretty friendly once you get to know him.
"Your local Dodge dealer is certainly more customer-oriented than the one in my area; such a request at my dealer would have been met with a snide laugh and a not-so-nice "get lost, old timer, we don't stock parts for those cars anymore!"
yeah..i know what you mean. there is a few dealers that wouldn't give me the time of day for something like this. these guys are kinda cool because they like to break out the old stuff and blow the dust off of it. they have been in business since 1934 here. they still have an old sign out front red and white with the penta star on it, not the new dodge ram head signs like you see now....
"I think we all agree that the snorkel hood scoop, with accompanying clean air holes, WILL FIT this model (as your photos above demonstrate). For that matter, the same can be said for any 71-74 (and maybe 75-76) Demon/Duster."
the scoop will fit all of these years this is true, but it was only offered on 72 demons, and 73 dart sports from the factory. the scoop could be bought and put on any car including dusters. if you look closely you can see the part numbers for the scoop #3573698 and the 8 nuts that are needed for attaching it to the hood #6028172
"it might be good to get Galen Glovier's opinion on this matter. Perhaps he would have access to additional factory specifications."
i can do this but it won't be until the spring, in april. this is when i see him at the spring mopar maddness show here every year. if i try to contact him now he would charge me 75.00 to get the answer. i can get more for free in the show that is why i ask alot of questions when i have seen him at the shows. he is really pretty friendly once you get to know him.
"Your local Dodge dealer is certainly more customer-oriented than the one in my area; such a request at my dealer would have been met with a snide laugh and a not-so-nice "get lost, old timer, we don't stock parts for those cars anymore!"
yeah..i know what you mean. there is a few dealers that wouldn't give me the time of day for something like this. these guys are kinda cool because they like to break out the old stuff and blow the dust off of it. they have been in business since 1934 here. they still have an old sign out front red and white with the penta star on it, not the new dodge ram head signs like you see now....
DartSportDude
Old school A-body owner
7Demon2,
I may see Galen at the Mopars at the Strip event in Las Vegas. That's in March. I'll try to ask him, too. Sounds like you know him personally, so you may have better luck. No need to pay for his answer now.
BTW: If you haven't been to the Vegas event, you should try to go. It is one hell of an event -- easily the biggest Mopar show west of the Mississippi. That being said, the A-body category in the car show leaves a lot to be desired. I've been wanting the take my DS up there for several years...maybe this year. I think you'd do very well with your Demon.
This hood scoop things is very perplexing -- again, I hope your conclusions are right. This is actually an area where Galen could do a service to A-body collectors -- he's likely the only guy with enough factory documentation to answer the question once and for all.
Thanks for all your fact-finding.
I may see Galen at the Mopars at the Strip event in Las Vegas. That's in March. I'll try to ask him, too. Sounds like you know him personally, so you may have better luck. No need to pay for his answer now.
BTW: If you haven't been to the Vegas event, you should try to go. It is one hell of an event -- easily the biggest Mopar show west of the Mississippi. That being said, the A-body category in the car show leaves a lot to be desired. I've been wanting the take my DS up there for several years...maybe this year. I think you'd do very well with your Demon.
This hood scoop things is very perplexing -- again, I hope your conclusions are right. This is actually an area where Galen could do a service to A-body collectors -- he's likely the only guy with enough factory documentation to answer the question once and for all.
Thanks for all your fact-finding.
7demon2
Registered User #1824
just an update here. today i found out that the dual snorkel scoop was available on the 74 dart sport as well. so to correct this i am posting this for everyone to see. the scoop was gone after 74 not 73!
When I bought my Dart, the underside of the hood still had it's original paint. It had the holes AND the gaskets in it. The car is a J54 Black-Out Hood with Scoop car. I have looked at several other J54 Darts at various Mopar shows all over from El Paso to the Nats and they all had the holes.
In 1972, 2 of the guys that I went to high school with bought new 340 Demons with the hood scoops. And they both had the holes in them. We even tempted fate by kidding Fat Wayne about somebody stealing parts off his car.
Fat Wayne bought a all black bench auto on the column.
Rick bought a bucket seat ,4 speed with A/C !
I thought I ran into Rick's car at the Nats in 05 when I saw it from a distance but this was not it. If you look really close under the hood, you can see the holes. I don't think that everybody that has a J54 hood would cut the same holes in the same place and I also don't think that Dodge would produce 2 different hoods for no reason.
I hope this helps in this discussion.
In 1972, 2 of the guys that I went to high school with bought new 340 Demons with the hood scoops. And they both had the holes in them. We even tempted fate by kidding Fat Wayne about somebody stealing parts off his car.
Fat Wayne bought a all black bench auto on the column.
Rick bought a bucket seat ,4 speed with A/C !
I thought I ran into Rick's car at the Nats in 05 when I saw it from a distance but this was not it. If you look really close under the hood, you can see the holes. I don't think that everybody that has a J54 hood would cut the same holes in the same place and I also don't think that Dodge would produce 2 different hoods for no reason.
I hope this helps in this discussion.
DemonDave
Swollen Member
A friend of mine was the original owner of the 1973 Dart Sport 340. When he bought the car new, it had the holes under the scoop, a few years later, he opened up the entire diamond section under the scoop for more airflow. Later, he changed the hood completely for one with a Pro-Stock scoop on it... I know, I know but it was the 1970's at the time. ;)
I wonder if Dodge did sell different hoods depending on where the cars were being sold. Perhaps wet or snowy climates had an option for the holes to prevent water/snow/etc from getting into the engine compartment? Just a guess although the fact that my buddy bought his new here in the snowbelt with the holes kind of shoots my theory out of the water...
I wonder if Dodge did sell different hoods depending on where the cars were being sold. Perhaps wet or snowy climates had an option for the holes to prevent water/snow/etc from getting into the engine compartment? Just a guess although the fact that my buddy bought his new here in the snowbelt with the holes kind of shoots my theory out of the water...
7demon2
Registered User #1824
there was 2 different hood. 2 different part numbers as well. 1 w/ hood holes for scoop and 1 without holes and no scoop........
72DemonNewB
New Member
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Hi there i'm new at this so please bear with me if some times it takes a little longer to figure this out ( chatting on the form that is)
i just bought a 1972 demon that does not have a hood scoop and from searching the web i came across your conversations and by pure luck i guess i also was looking at a demon that looks very original but before reading all the comments i had not noticed that this original looking car does have as you say the fresh air holes in the hood.
i will try to attache the web page./www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/124384,11749,0,0/1972-Dodge-Dart-Demon_Photo.aspx
i just bought a 1972 demon that does not have a hood scoop and from searching the web i came across your conversations and by pure luck i guess i also was looking at a demon that looks very original but before reading all the comments i had not noticed that this original looking car does have as you say the fresh air holes in the hood.
i will try to attache the web page./www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/124384,11749,0,0/1972-Dodge-Dart-Demon_Photo.aspx
72DemonNewB:
I know the owners of that car. Which car show was this one at? I know they were at one at York Collage, that was only a invitational show thou.
John
pettybludart
Well-Known Member
I am the owner of a 1973 Dart Sport 340.My hood has no scoop no holes.I have a spare hood which I am mounting the factory snorkle hood scoop.I will be opening up the hood for air induction.I was lucky to pick up the factory scoop at Moparfest this past summer($250.00)I sent the Year-one scoop back that I purchased.The fit was terrible and was made for 71-72 Demon-Dart.Thanks for info. and measurements it will be helpful.
Can you e-mail these photos/install information? I would like to install one of these on my 1971 Duster.
[email protected]
Thanks!
[email protected]
Thanks!
72DemonNewB
New Member
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i found the pics on the internet, i was / i'm looking for info as i said i just bought a 72 demon and i'm looking to add a hood scoop so i've been searching for as much info as i can find.
this is mine, i'm actualy picking it up on Friday
this is mine, i'm actualy picking it up on Friday
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