Denso alternator

[cgraff]

I read through the recommended MAD Electrical article and several other posts regarding the Amp meter bypass and re-wiring when using a Denso alternator in place of the factory alternator.

The alt I will use is a Denso model 27060-35060 or 27060-35061, originally for 85-92 4Runner, rated at 60 amp that is internally regulated. The alternator uses a round plug with an Ignition, Sense and Lamp connector as well as a stud marked BAT.

It seems that this is a somewhat common upgrade, however I just want to double check and make sure that I am not overlooking anything before proceeding.

1. Does the Sense wire and the recommended 10 gauge BAT/Charging Wire both go to the stud found on the starter relay? What gauge wire should be used for the Sense wire?
2. Can I still employ the factory AMP meter, after by-passing the weak flat blade terminal connector found at the bulkhead since the alt. is rated at 60 amps? Or should I totally remove the amp meter due to the possibility that the gauge may lead to a failure?
3. For those whose who have done this conversion and have an idiot light in their gauge cluster, did you wire in the lamp or simply ignored it? Does it serve any purpose?
4. Did most use the (dark blue in my case) voltage regulator wire for the ignition lead from the alternator?

TIA, electrically challenged

 

[slantsixdan]

You don't have to choose either having an ammeter or having a reliable electrical system. And no, I'm not talking about the hack-azz "solutions" offered at the (chevy-head) Mad Electric site. I much prefer the clean and technically correct ideas and components from R/T Engineering. They can rework stock ammeters to handle up to 70 amps efficiently, and they can convert stock ammeters into voltmeters (complete with a new gauge face that looks like factory equipment). They also sell a really good electronic instrument cluster voltage limiter. Their website's got a bunch of really good info on it, but you have to mouse around awhile to find it; the organisation isn't completely obvious. For example, I know there's a pic of one of their voltmeter conversions somewhere on the site, but I can't find it at the moment! Be sure to see this page. They actually have intelligent people who actually answer the phone (and who actually own Mopars, and who actually know what the he|| theyre talking about when it comes to Mopar charging systems...none of which can be said of the Mad electrical people), so if you get fed up trying to find what you want on the site, call them.

RTE informed me when I did call them that they have upgraded A-body ammeters for sale on the shelf, either with good used/cleaned-up faces or with newly-restored/reprinted faces. $75 or $99, respectively. I bought one of the good used ones and it is perfectly nice.

The internally-regulated alternator is a lot harder to hook up than if you get a Denso alternator from an '88-up Mopar, which works fine with the regular Mopar external voltage regulator and is much easier to wire into a Mopar. And the added bonus of doing it that way is that you aren't stuck replacing the alternator when the voltage regulator fails, as is the case with internally-regulated alternators.

 

[BWDart]

I replaced my amp with a 1 1/2" auto meter volt gauge fits nice into a 72 Dart dash, I also put an oil pressure gauge on the opposite side to balance out the dash.

 

[juvat]

cgraff - I plan on doing the same thing. I'm planning on keeping the ammeter connected but running the charge wire from the alternator to the relay post and connecting the old charge wire to the post too. If your ammeter is in good shape there shouldn't be a need to bypass it as charging current shouldn't be going through it, but it could display weird readings. I would not run that 60 amps through the gauge as it's set up now though, that might cause the ammeter to overheat and melt (what MAD electrical's site talks about). The sense wire is a remote voltage sensing wire as far as I can tell and the gauge of it is small (look on arengineering's site and they show the picture of the pigtail you can order). I would use the same size wire and do similar to your plan with the starter relay terminal (makes me wonder why you can't just piggyback it to the charging wire). I can't answer your other questions, but please update with your progress when you start it.

 

[cgraff]

Hi juvat,

Thanks for the respone. I was curious about the stock amp gauge and spoke to Mark who wrote the MAD information. He felt the factory guage should be able to accomodate a 60 amp. If one's using the higher rated alternator, he said to bypass it.

I thought the same thing about piggy-backing the sense to the Bat feed. I wish I would have asked about that too.

I actually did this same modification years ago however, I couldn't recall if I did it exactly as I described. Hence my post. At the time, I did completely by-pass the amp gauge. I never had any problems and the system performed great. I wasn't running anything with a large draw such as electric fans, fuel pump, thumping radio etc. and the 60 amp Denso kept everything running great.

I'll probably be firing this up in a month and will keep you posted about the amp gauge or anything else. Feel free to check back in if you don't hear from me and you get closer to making the update to.

 

[Rice Nuker]

cgraff - I plan on doing the same thing. I'm planning on keeping the ammeter connected but running the charge wire from the alternator to the relay post and connecting the old charge wire to the post too. If your ammeter is in good shape there shouldn't be a need to bypass it as charging current shouldn't be going through it, but it could display weird readings. I would not run that 60 amps through the gauge as it's set up now though, that might cause the ammeter to overheat and melt (what MAD electrical's site talks about). The sense wire is a remote voltage sensing wire as far as I can tell and the gauge of it is small (look on arengineering's site and they show the picture of the pigtail you can order). I would use the same size wire and do similar to your plan with the starter relay terminal (makes me wonder why you can't just piggyback it to the charging wire). I can't answer your other questions, but please update with your progress when you start it.

Guys, I am pretty sure the sense wire detects only that the ignition is on, to activate the alternator, hook to key switched +12. Atleast thats the way we used to wire up generical motors alternators.. 2 hots (piggybacked to +, on+ battery thru 8 -10 gauge or so) and one sense wire, (connect to keyed on voltage). So if the sense wire is connected to constant on batt. The alternator windings will remain energized when the vehicle is off. Run the batt dead..
My two nickels...