Did I catch it soon enough to avoid a rebuild?

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UOP

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Well, I'm pretty sure I've got a wiped cam, but by looking at the damage did I catch it soon enough to avoid having to pull the motor? The cam and lifter both appear to be just showing the signs. I couldn't get a good enough pic of the lobe, but it's showing signs very similar to the lifter. No major damage, but both have grooves big enough to catch your fingernail.

I think I caught it in time, but would like some input before making any plans.

2012-09-30_15-34-08_0.jpg



Thanks as always......
 
I've seen a whole lot worse that only got a new cam and lifters.
 
inkjunkie said:
Where did the scrap go?
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I would call that minimal damage. I have seen damage a lot worse get repaired with a new cam and lifters with no lasting damage. I worked at a GM dealer Through the 80's when flat cams were the norm. tmm
 
I don't really know what caused it. This is a lifter from a new set installed on a used cam. I had the lifters that came from the cam, but didn't know which lifter matched what lobe, so I just installed a new set. I used a good moly lube on the lobes and also on the face of the lifter, but not on the sides. Straight oil was used for that to ensure the lifter would spin in the bore. When the engine was started it fired right up after only one or two rotations, then broke it in like a new cam. The only thing that wasn't done was that there was no cam break-in additive used in the oil.

As for the old lifters that went with the cam, they look fine from what I can tell. They all have a nice circular pattern and still have the convex shape.
 
toolmanmike said:
I would call that minimal damage. I have seen damage a lot worse get repaired with a new cam and lifters with no lasting damage. I worked at a GM dealer Through the 80's when flat cams were the norm. tmm
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Understand that.....but I am the guy that would have what little bit of junk came off of that lodged in 4 bearings.....
 
I would do an oil change and cut the old filter open just out of curiosity and see what kind of scrap you find in there, I'll bet it's minimal.
 
I'd pop the pan off, pull oil pump and pickup for a good inspection/cleaning.
 
That's very minimal. Replace the cam and lifters and no big deal.
 
As said before, probably not enough metal loss to cause any real damage. Replace the cam/lifters make sure the lifters rotate smooth in the bores. Most importantly use a break in oil, and at least run 15/40W after break in. I like to place magnets placed strategically in the heads in my engines. You'd be amazed at how much metal fluff comes off the springs and valvetrain, also a magnetic drain plug.
Don't think of it as failed cam, just an unexpected upgrade requirement.
 
crackedback said:
I'd pop the pan off, pull oil pump and pickup for a good inspection/cleaning.
Click to expand...

That would be the best way, maybe not 100% needed but then look how clean you want a brand new motor to be, there has to be some metal floating around. Old timers would run a quart of trans fluid in the oil for 30 mins and then pull the pan and clean it up
 
UOP said:
I don't really know what caused it. This is a lifter from a new set installed on a used cam. I had the lifters that came from the cam, but didn't know which lifter matched what lobe, so I just installed a new set. I used a good moly lube on the lobes and also on the face of the lifter, but not on the sides. Straight oil was used for that to ensure the lifter would spin in the bore. When the engine was started it fired right up after only one or two rotations, then broke it in like a new cam. The only thing that wasn't done was that there was no cam break-in additive used in the oil.

As for the old lifters that went with the cam, they look fine from what I can tell. They all have a nice circular pattern and still have the convex shape.
Click to expand...

Oops.
Strike 2.
 
How heavy of springs are you using?? the comp cam guy told me you need use light SINGLE springs for break in then change to the heavier springs after break in. just a thought.
 
Yeah, nowadays you have to get all of the bits right to make it work well:
Verify the lifters rotate
Don't use paste lubes on the lifter body
Run the outer springs only or a weaker set
Verify the preload is correct
Verify piston to valve and retainer to guide distances are good
Make sure the engine is not turned over much once it's fully assembled
Make sure the engine fires immediately and there's no reason to shut it down early Make sure the oil you use has the zinc in it, or use an additive.
 
moper said:
Yeah, nowadays you have to get all of the bits right to make it work well:
Verify the lifters rotate
Don't use paste lubes on the lifter body
Run the outer springs only or a weaker set
Verify the preload is correct
Verify piston to valve and retainer to guide distances are good
Make sure the engine is not turned over much once it's fully assembled
Make sure the engine fires immediately and there's no reason to shut it down early Make sure the oil you use has the zinc in it, or use an additive.
Click to expand...

Yup, did all that, but still failed. I mentioned earlier that there was not a cam break-in additive used but there was a zinc additive in the oil. I don't know if there is a difference in the two. I had a feeling that breaking in new lifters on a used cam would probably be trouble, but thought that with careful attention to detail it would be ok. I guess you just roll the dice sometimes, and this time I lost.

In any case, a new cam and lifters are on the way. I appreciate the input. :glasses7:
 
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