distributor intermeadiate shaft?

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bbeep71

bbeep71

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Does it matter if the distributor intermeadiate shaft is not lined up correctly in the engine? ( gear slot in line with front left of intake at TDC#1).
Thanks
 
no it does not matter....but you can take a large screw driver and turn it counter clockwise to get it align as you noted...

went you turn with screw driver...it will come up off the cam gear and allow you to move it....then with trial and error or a good guess you can get it in the correct spot....

but....it does not have to be there....just have to turn distributor to align #1 if it is not .....

counter clock wise..for small block
clock wise for big block...
 
In theory, it doesn't matter. In practice, I've seen varying degrees of problems. I know it doesn't make sense. It is what it is. I'd line it up properly.
 
The problem I'm trying to fix, is that when you put a timing light on the engine, it is way off. When you time the engine by ear, it runs fine. If you check the timing with a light after wards, it's way off. The only build problem is that this shaft was put in incorrectly and the wires relocated. Is it possible that this is upsetting the use of a timing light.
Thanks
 
Hmmm...hard to start...or starts great but run's terrible up on top end....yep seen that problem before best to line it up where it's supposed to be and maybe double check that piston is indeed at tdc by using a piece of wire to feel the piston come up to the top then make sure the mark on the balancer is in correct position
 
Only issue I've seen with intermediate shaft wrong is not having enough swing in the spark advance to get the timing right. The spark advance can hit the oil sender and short it out too.
My 1st car was a 71 Gremlin 232 -6 cyl. Set the timing with a light and it wouldn't run right. Slowly adjust the timing untl the tip of the radio antenna set perfectly still and it ran great. Ever heard of anyone else setting timing with a radio antenna ? LOL
 
Max340 said:
In theory, it doesn't matter. In practice, I've seen varying degrees of problems. I know it doesn't make sense. It is what it is. I'd line it up properly.
Click to expand...

Please Max. Post very detailed instructions on how to do this properly. I would like to know.

Thanks,
Skybolt
 
moved the engine so that the timing marks on the balancer and the timing chain cover line up...

pop distributor cap to see if rotor is lined up with no 1 on distributor cap...

how old is your balancer? the outer ring on the balancer might have slipped if it really old...i had a 318 do that...could not time with a line...but ran great went timed by ear....

the outer ring had slipped....

so make sure no 1 on the balancer is no 1 on the distributor....
 
70aarcuda said:
moved the engine so that the timing marks on the balancer and the timing chain cover line up...

pop distributor cap to see if rotor is lined up with no 1 on distributor cap...

how old is your balancer? the outer ring on the balancer might have slipped if it really old...i had a 318 do that...could not time with a line...but ran great went timed by ear....

the outer ring had slipped....

so make sure no 1 on the balancer is no 1 on the distributor....
Click to expand...

Yep....I would check that too. In reality, no matter the brand of engine, you can have #1 anywhere you desire. It is better though to put it where the factory did so it's easier to reference and have easier spark plug wire routing.
 
I checked TDC with a piston stop and halfway between cw and ccw marks the damper was at zero with the timing cover and distrib rotor was at #1 of cap after moving because of the misaligned distrib shaft.
8)
 
In the LA engines, the slot in the intermediate shaft should draw a straight line to the farthest forward bolt on the drivers side of the intake manifold. The engine must be on TDC for the #1 cylinder, and both valves should be closed. If the valves are not closed, you are on the wrong TDC, and need to rotate the engine one revolution. TDC should be verified with a check of the piston if there is any doubt as to the accuracy of the damper.

Drop the distributor in with the rotor tip aimed at the front bolt on the manifold, just as the slot was lined up. This will put everything at TDC, firing #1 cylinder.

I've had several engines that just didn't run right when the distributor was not properly aligned. The worst was a Ford 360 that either wouldn't start or wouldn't run at 3500+ RPM.
 
One small note.. the engine needs to be on TDC of cylinder one... on the compression stroke... Not the exh stroke.. that will drive you crazy...lol DAMHIK
 
bbeep71 said:
I checked TDC with a piston stop and halfway between cw and ccw marks the damper was at zero with the timing cover and distrib rotor was at #1 of cap after moving because of the misaligned distrib shaft.8)
Click to expand...

What is a piston stop? Might be a stupid question but never heard the term. Generally had the head off and measured with a dial indicator to determine exact tdc. I know both valve closed on compression stroke.
 
Max340 said:
In the LA engines, the slot in the intermediate shaft should draw a straight line to the farthest forward bolt on the drivers side of the intake manifold. The engine must be on TDC for the #1 cylinder, and both valves should be closed. If the valves are not closed, you are on the wrong TDC, and need to rotate the engine one revolution. TDC should be verified with a check of the piston if there is any doubt as to the accuracy of the damper.

Drop the distributor in with the rotor tip aimed at the front bolt on the manifold, just as the slot was lined up. This will put everything at TDC, firing #1 cylinder.

I've had several engines that just didn't run right when the distributor was not properly aligned. The worst was a Ford 360 that either wouldn't start or wouldn't run at 3500+ RPM.
Click to expand...

it does not matter where the intermediate shaft is pointed...as long as #1 on the rotor is pointed at #1 on the cap.....yes..the service manual shows it pointing toward the intake bolt on right front of the engine...you can move the intermediate shaft by using a large screw driver and turning the opposite direction as the engine turns...it will move up the cam gear...then move it to where you feel a warm and fuzzy feeling...

but it does not matters...

and a ford has a timing gear on the end of the distributor...a mopar does not...
 
A piston stop is screwed into the #1 spark plug hole and adjusted to stop the piston. When the engine is rotated CW by hand it will stop the engine from turning when the piston is near the top. You mark the damper and then rotate the engine in the opposite direction CCW and mark the damper again. Half way in between the marks on the damper is zero or TDC. Summit and Jegs sell piston stops. Be sure the engine is on #1 compression stroke when you perform this test.
8)
 
bbeep71 said:
A piston stop is screwed into the #1 spark plug hole and adjusted to stop the piston. When the engine is rotated CW by hand it will stop the engine from turning when the piston is near the top. You mark the damper and then rotate the engine in the opposite direction CCW and mark the damper again. Half way in between the marks on the damper is zero or TDC. Summit and Jegs sell piston stops. Be sure the engine is on #1 compression stroke when you perform this test.8)
Click to expand...

What does the piston stop look like? Is it home made or where can you purchase one? Never heard of one.
 
i made mine out of an old spark plug with the porcelain broke out of it. i then tapped 3/8" threads into the inside of it and used a piece of allthread to run into the cylinder. just be careful not to jam it too hard. when the piston hits the stop, well, stop. i made this tool for degreeing in a cam.
 
70aarcuda said:
it does not matter where the intermediate shaft is pointed...as long as #1 on the rotor is pointed at #1 on the cap.....yes..the service manual shows it pointing toward the intake bolt on right front of the engine...you can move the intermediate shaft by using a large screw driver and turning the opposite direction as the engine turns...it will move up the cam gear...then move it to where you feel a warm and fuzzy feeling...

but it does not matters...

and a ford has a timing gear on the end of the distributor...a mopar does not...
Click to expand...

That's right. As long as you can get the timing set correctly without the vacuum canister hitting the intake or the firewall your fine. I've even seen guys install the dist. 180* out and instead of pulling it back out and doing it right they just moves the plug wires around to make up for it and the engine ran just fine. Only problem then was some plug wires barely reached and others were too long because the plug wires were cut to fit the other way.
 
It doesn't matter, there are 18 teeth on the drive and likewise on the cam so..

To have a designated position allows the distributor to be 'most' adjustable in and around the timing curve the engine runs in with out hitting the fire wall,coil,etc while the old point the slot at the drivers front intake bolt @tdc makes only the difference of on or 180* off for entry level or forgetful wrench'rs.

But really you could go 4 teeth either way and just turn the body, basically if you were to take the dist drive & distributor locked and were able to pull them out together and rotate then reinstall, it be at the same timing.
 
bbeep71 said:
The problem I'm trying to fix, is that when you put a timing light on the engine, it is way off. When you time the engine by ear, it runs fine. If you check the timing with a light after wards, it's way off. The only build problem is that this shaft was put in incorrectly and the wires relocated. Is it possible that this is upsetting the use of a timing light.
Thanks
Click to expand...

What balancer do you have on it?

Find tdc and mark the balancer @0 on the cover then re time.jmo
 
You can buy a TDC piston stop at Summit or Jegs. The balancer is stock 360. The balancer and timing cover line up at TDC#1 0deg when piston stop used. If you put timing light on and set timing at around 10deg or so, it won't run. Turn distrib. to run and check timing. It's around 40-50 deg by light. No vac adv. connected. It runs great and has plenty of power and starts well. You just can't time it with a light. I have used a regular and dial back light to no avail. This drives me nuts that I can't time it with a light.8)
 
70aarcuda said:
it does not matter where the intermediate shaft is pointed...as long as #1 on the rotor is pointed at #1 on the cap.....yes..the service manual shows it pointing toward the intake bolt on right front of the engine...you can move the intermediate shaft by using a large screw driver and turning the opposite direction as the engine turns...it will move up the cam gear...then move it to where you feel a warm and fuzzy feeling...

but it does not matters...

and a ford has a timing gear on the end of the distributor...a mopar does not...
Click to expand...

If the rotor is pointed at #1 on the cap, then the intermediate shaft will ALSO be pointed at #1, which is the front bolt hole on the left side of the intake. The rotor is aligned with the slot below.

I understand that a Ford has a timing gear on the distributor shaft. However, if the intermediate shaft on the Mopar is out a tooth it WILL affect performance, despite the mechanicals being in perfect timing. As I said before, it makes no sense, and defies the engineering, but it is true, and has a possibility to screw things up.
 
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