Distributor Tester

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scott657

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In my "spare time" I am building a distributor tester. I based it on this post from the internet
Build Your Own Distributor Test Machine For Under $100
I have it all together except for the plug wires
The first distributor I will put on it has a Pertronix IgnitorI module.
My question is Can I short the plug wires to ground, or should I run them through an actual gapped plug. I don't want to harm the electronic module @Mattax @Dana67Dart
(not intentioally leaving out any other electrical gurus.)
(Pertronix coil so I don't need a ballast resistor.)
Thank you

IMG_2560.jpg
IMG_2561.jpg
 
That's kinda cool. I would definitely run it through spark plugs. Make sure no flammable liquids are around! :popcorn:
 
In my "spare time" I am building a distributor tester. I based it on this post from the internet
Build Your Own Distributor Test Machine For Under $100
I have it all together except for the plug wires
The first distributor I will put on it has a Pertronix IgnitorI module.
My question is Can I short the plug wires to ground, or should I run them through an actual gapped plug. I don't want to harm the electronic module @Mattax @Dana67Dart
(not intentioally leaving out any other electrical gurus.)
(Pertronix coil so I don't need a ballast resistor.)
Thank you

View attachment 1715566366 View attachment 1715566367


Pretty cool. How do you measure RPM? I see no tach.

You can use some solid wire and loop it through all the plug terminals on the cap and then run that one wire to a plug. Or you can hook up plug wires and fire all 8 plugs.

What ever you do, never EVER test a Pertronix, a unilite or any complete ignition system without firing plugs or grounding the system like I first mentioned. You will kill the Pertronix or Unilte or the MSD box or whatever you’re testing. Even firing 7 and only 1 isn’t grounded will kill that stuff.
 
I'm guessing grounding or closing the electrode up would be OK, but this is not an area I know well.
@KitCarlson is an electronics guy - in particular ignition systems.
 
I built it specifically for the mopar for now. I would have to adapt it for something else.I will use a regular test tachometer for engine rpm and a timing light, 1* on the wheel equals 2 crank degrees for distributor advance.
 
Years ago I looked over an engine/ compressor in the back of a tire truck. It was a Buick 225 with one special head, so one bank "ran" and the other compressed. All the manuf. did was cut the three unused plug wires, crimp them into a terminal, and ground them to the block

And YES ground them but do NOT leave them open. Leaving high voltage open can be murder on solid state components, and can even damage a coil on a breaker points system. "Flashover", "carbon tracking", etc
 
As per distributor testing you do not need a coil or plugs and yes there are procedures for testing petronix units on a tester. Now the set up I see is a ignition tester, not sure if you want the say for better lack of a term OPEN wire grounded or not, really would think it depends on they type of ignition tester/meter you are using.
 
Here is a sun ignition tester mounted to a sun distributor tester, looks really similar. As far as I know you looked at the color of the spark to determine how hot. Had nothing at all to do with measuring the curve, etc. Two different animals working together. I can see a pointer and timing light along with a tach can document a curve. Hope it helps. Pretty cool though either way. Just make sure that is grounded to the 12V source to be safe also.
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How does the home made machine test and measure that?
 
My main goal is to test/set advance curve.


Halifax is on the money. One thing to note is the fact that ALL electronic ignition systems will retard with RPM. All of them. Some more than others, but they all do it. This is because an electronic ignition system has electronic switches instead of mechanical ones (points are mechanical).

Just as it takes time to open and close points, it takes time for the electronics to switch on and off. It’s called “slew rate” and the amount of retard changes with components. It sounds complicated and it kinda is, but it isn’t.

It takes time for the electronics to switch on and off (or whatever other function they may have) so as RPM goes up, the slew rate becomes retard. That happens once you’ve reached full mechanical advance.

That’s why I like to test the complete ignition system once I have the curve I want. You can see the amount of retard, where it starts and at what RPM it retards more.

This is important because most guys never check for it, and in the car with a timing light it’s near impossible to see.

So, let’s say you get full advance at 2500, and you set total timing at lets say 2800. But the ignition box (or the trigger in the distributor if it doesn’t need a box) starts to retard at 3000, and it’s 2 degrees. And at 4100 it’s another 2 degrees retarded. And at 6000 it’s another degree retarded. That’s a total of 5 degrees of retard at 6000 RPM and that’s AFTER full adavance, but you’ll never see it with a timing light in the car, because no one verified the timing that high and because it’s damn hard to see the tach, look at the marks and all that.

So instead of having full timing through the RPM, range, you lose advance. And in this example (using arbitrary numbers for the sake of discussion) if you set the total at 35 degrees at 2800 RPM you only have 30 total at 6000 RPM.

You can’t see that if you don’t test the entire ignition system, or try to see what happens with the ignition in the car.

That’s why locking out the timing is such a bad idea. Most guys who lock the timing out set the timing at idle. So they never realize they don’t have full timing with RPM.

Also, remember that timing lights have a slew rate as well!

I hope this didn’t confuse you.
 
Look up how to test A PETRONIX UNIT YOU NEED A 9v battery and you can do it. Also a pointer for the degree wheel that you can move around. A stiff piece of mechanics wire or a coat hanger will work to set it to #1 and use a timing light. Love it!
 
Halifax is on the money. One thing to note is the fact that ALL electronic ignition systems will retard with RPM. All of them. Some more than others, but they all do it. This is because an electronic ignition system has electronic switches instead of mechanical ones (points are mechanical).

Just as it takes time to open and close points, it takes time for the electronics to switch on and off. It’s called “slew rate” and the amount of retard changes with components. It sounds complicated and it kinda is, but it isn’t.

It takes time for the electronics to switch on and off (or whatever other function they may have) so as RPM goes up, the slew rate becomes retard. That happens once you’ve reached full mechanical advance.

That’s why I like to test the complete ignition system once I have the curve I want. You can see the amount of retard, where it starts and at what RPM it retards more.

This is important because most guys never check for it, and in the car with a timing light it’s near impossible to see.

So, let’s say you get full advance at 2500, and you set total timing at lets say 2800. But the ignition box (or the trigger in the distributor if it doesn’t need a box) starts to retard at 3000, and it’s 2 degrees. And at 4100 it’s another 2 degrees retarded. And at 6000 it’s another degree retarded. That’s a total of 5 degrees of retard at 6000 RPM and that’s AFTER full adavance, but you’ll never see it with a timing light in the car, because no one verified the timing that high and because it’s damn hard to see the tach, look at the marks and all that.

So instead of having full timing through the RPM, range, you lose advance. And in this example (using arbitrary numbers for the sake of discussion) if you set the total at 35 degrees at 2800 RPM you only have 30 total at 6000 RPM.

You can’t see that if you don’t test the entire ignition system, or try to see what happens with the ignition in the car.

That’s why locking out the timing is such a bad idea. Most guys who lock the timing out set the timing at idle. So they never realize they don’t have full timing with RPM.

Also, remember that timing lights have a slew rate as well!

I hope this didn’t confuse you.
Great explanation. When a engine is run on the dyno, often times they retest with different total advances. (usually advanced a degree or two at a time until the horsepower starts falling off) The total advance @ 3000 is a baseline and really just a number. Like you said, You might loose 5° or more at maximum rpm.
 
I've always thought the engine itself was the best distributor/ignition tester as it tests it all at once. You can adjust the curve as needed.
 
IT WORKS
the distributor I am testing is all in at 20* full advance ( on the engine it would be 14 initial with 34 total) All in with this distributor is at about 3500 RPM, Ill change springs to try and get 2800.
And as I revved it up I saw some slight retard until it leveled itself out.
the machine needs a little refinement but so far so good.
Screen Shot 2020-07-27 at 5.26.58 PM.png
 
IT WORKS
the distributor I am testing is all in at 20* full advance ( on the engine it would be 14 initial with 34 total) All in with this distributor is at about 3500 RPM, Ill change springs to try and get 2800.
And as I revved it up I saw some slight retard until it leveled itself out.
the machine needs a little refinement but so far so good.View attachment 1715568716
Awsome.
There you go. Aslo shows that most of the retard we see is in the electronics, whether its the ECU or the dial back timing light or both.
Generally 3500 or later is better. There will be less retard and more control through at the high rpms, and will work better with vacuum advance. The shape of the pre-emisions factory or Direct Connection curves is generally the way to go. Drag race only, then quicker generally can be better - as long as it doesn't cost in too much retard at the top end.
 
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IT WORKS
the distributor I am testing is all in at 20* full advance ( on the engine it would be 14 initial with 34 total) All in with this distributor is at about 3500 RPM, Ill change springs to try and get 2800.
And as I revved it up I saw some slight retard until it leveled itself out.
the machine needs a little refinement but so far so good.View attachment 1715568716


Welp...now you’re screwed. You’ll start learning and next thing you know you’ll be buying a full machine, spinning up anything you can find...

It’s an addiction. Plus, you’ll make more power, get better fuel economy and have better driveability.

Next up...carb tuning and going down THAT rabbit hole.

Pretty impressive you want to learn. This is just the start.
 
I wish I had started earlier on this stuff. It will be good for my retirement.


Absolutely it’s GREAT for retirement. You can make some side coin if you can get the tune up down. You never stop learning.

I’m still surprised by the curve balls I’ve been getting lately. I’ve had to call my mentor to get out of the weeds.
 
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