Distributor vacuum advance hitting intake.......

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gtgto

gtgto

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Tried to reset my timing over the weekend. Found the vacuum advance hose was split cause its binding on the intake where the timing was set. After removing the cap I turned engine by hand to get rotor pointing to 1 on distributor and engine to TDC. I figured I would rotate the drive gear for the distributor a tooth or two clockwise which would essentially created the space I need for the vaccum hose to not bind on the intake. After doing this and re inserting the distributor the rotor was not far off from where it originally was pointing. I only moved it a tooth clockwise. Should I now move the plug wires one post clockwise? The rotor seemed to be pointing similarly to where it was originally but I have much more clearance for the VA hose. The rotor seemed to be in between posts on the cap. This is so basic yet a problem for my brain to comprehend. The car seems to be running fine but the timing mark seems to not be where it should be. I started getting annoyed and had to stop but I am planning on getting under the hood when I get home today.
 
Either pull the dist and walk the gear a tooth or two, or move the wires one tower and retime.
 
I pretty much clocked the distrubutor so the advance can is pointed to the front of the car, way much easier to make timing adjustments now.
 
If you clock the intermediate shaft per the fsm instructions there should be sufficient clearance for the vac advance can. If you move the shaft one tooth and also move the wires it would seem to me the can would end up in the same place. Move the gear one tooth then rotate the distributor body to line up #1 and you should be good.
At the end of the day the engine does not care where the distributor body is, only that the rotor is pointing to #1 at tdc.
 
Small Block, Put the engine on top dead center . Timing mark on zero , Firing or Exhaust stroke don't matter which. Install the drive gear with the distributor slot inline with the drivers side front intake bolt. This is the correct position for the gear. Everything should line up then . When timed the vacuum hose should be parallel with the firewall facing the passenger side .
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Small Block, Put the engine on top dead center . Timing mark on zero , Firing or Exhaust stroke don't matter which. Install the drive gear with the distributor slot inline with the drivers side front intake bolt. This is the correct position for the gear. Everything should line up then . When timed the vacuum hose should be parallel with the firewall facing the passenger side .
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I pretty much agree with the above. If #1 is on TDC, compression stroke, then when you drop the distributor in you can rotate the distributor body CCW so the reluctor is lined up with the pick-up(std Chrysler electronic) or points contacting but "about to be separated". That will be close to #1 firing position which will give you your #1 terminal. When all is said and done, it should look like the Motor Manual SB distributor diagram. While you don't absolutely have to have their #1 as your #1, pre-made spark plug wires are made to fit that arrangement, and you won't have some wires which are too short or way too long.
 
I can tell you this before you get anal about where to turn the slot in the Distributor drive gear; to the engine, it doesn't matter where it is.
The only thing that matters is that whatever tower is above the rotor when #1 cylinder is at TDC compression, gets the #1 wire.
You can spend all day moving that slot 15 times and it will not change this.
Now whether or not you care about having it in the factory location, is up to you.
Furthermore, as already stated, when you drop the D in, immediately push the Vcan towards the firewall. Rotate the crank backwards from #1 TDC compression to about 10/15* BTDC (still on #1 Compression), then advance the D per instructions in post #7. Then mark the Outside of the D as to where the rotor is. Install the cap. Find the mark you made. Whatever tower is closest to your mark, now has to have the #1 wire installed. Then install the rest following the firing order. With the Vcan now as far back as is possible, you will have plenty of room to advance the thing.
As rustycow said;
The factory installation ensures that all the custom-length wires actually reach their intended destinations, and it looks pretty clean when done. Also, if the cap has a factory cast-in "1" at a particular tower, then that will be for cylinder No.1, with the factory installation method. But those are the ONLY reasons to try to install it the factory way..... otherwise, to the engine it just does not matter.
 
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Take the distributor out and rotate stuff!??... I would have just pulled one spark plug wire at a time to the right and switched it with the one to the left till I made all the way around and then rotated the distributor to the left...
 
rustycowll69 said:
I pretty much agree with the above. If #1 is on TDC, compression stroke, then when you drop the distributor in you can rotate the distributor body CCW so the reluctor is lined up with the pick-up(std Chrysler electronic) or points contacting but "about to be separated". That will be close to #1 firing position which will give you your #1 terminal. When all is said and done, it should look like the Motor Manual SB distributor diagram. While you don't absolutely have to have their #1 as your #1, pre-made spark plug wires are made to fit that arrangement, and you won't have some wires which are too short or way too long.
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It doesn't matter if its in Comp. Or Exhaust stroke. The slot for the distributor in the gear is always inline to the front intake bolt. You can install the distributor after aligning the slot facing the correct way. It will be either on top dead center or 180 off. But when on top dead center going into firing stroke the distributor rotor will be in line with No. 1 with the vacuum advance at the correct position.
 
then I would turn the crank back & come forward to 20 BTDC initial then turn the dist till the magnet is lined up with the tooth putting the rotor under or near under the #1 dist cap terminal as said. good time to check rotor phasing.
 
Open up a factory service manual, and do it like the factory does it. Or like Old Man Ray mentioned. TDC, timing mark lined up, dist gear lined up with no.1. Takes all the guess work out of it. Never understood why anyone would do it any different.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Open up a factory service manual, and do it like the factory does it. Or like Old Man Ray mentioned. TDC, timing mark lined up, dist gear lined up with no.1. Takes all the guess work out of it. Never understood why anyone would do it any different.
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Exactly. It most certainly "does matter" or else the factory service manual would say it didn't. That's the whole purpose of this thread. The OP found out "it matters".
 
RustyRatRod said:
Exactly. It most certainly "does matter" or else the factory service manual would say it didn't. That's the whole purpose of this thread. The OP found out "it matters".
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You can have the number one spark plug wire on any one of the eight spots as long as the rotor is facing it at number one top dead center.... Just because the factory has it aiming towards the number one doesn't mean a damn thing..
 
j par said:
You can have the number one spark plug wire on any one of the eight spots as long as the rotor is facing it at number one top dead center.... Just because the factory has it aiming towards the number one doesn't mean a damn thing..
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It certainly does and this thread is proof. If you don't have the intermediate shaft and the distributor in the correct spot, the vacuum advance can make contact with something and limit its travel. That is the OP's original complaint. It's either correct, or it's not. I never argued that it wouldn't WORK stabbed in another location. I said it's not correct and it's not.
 
The only reason there is a standard in the placement of the gear and the distributor is standardization and ease of troubleshooting, along with having standard length wires.

The engine doesn't care where number one is as long as the rotor is pointed at it at top dead center, likewise with the advance.


Alan
 
Cuda Al said:
The only reason there is a standard in the placement of the gear and the distributor is standardization and ease of troubleshooting, along with having standard length wires.

The engine doesn't care where number one is as long as the rotor is pointed at it at top dead center, likewise with the advance.


Alan
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No, there's also WHERE the vacuum advance can ends up. So there's three reasons, including your two. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. Sure, it will run the same regardless of where you point the rotor. No one has debated that. But your two stated reasons, plus the one I stated are enough for me to install them per the factory service manual. That's the only way I will install a distributor in anything and it's worked well for me for many decades now. That's why I recommend doing it THE RIGHT WAY. Why there's any argument on that is beyond me.
 
I know this will be a novel concept, but not all of us are using stock intakes, or stock distributors for that matter, so just saying that the only way to fix the issue is to follow the FSM to the letter is just a recipe for more frustration. Somehow it never dawned on the engineers at Edelbrock (or fill in your favorite manifold purveyor here) to make sure the aftermarket distributor (made by a different company) would not cause interference between company B's vacuum advance unit and company A's intake runner. Just try the stock distributor orientation with an Edelbrock STR crossram...
 
str12-340 said:
I know this will be a novel concept, but not all of us are using stock intakes, or stock distributors for that matter, so just saying that the only way to fix the issue is to follow the FSM to the letter is just a recipe for more frustration. Somehow it never dawned on the engineers at Edelbrock (or fill in your favorite manifold purveyor here) to make sure the aftermarket distributor (made by a different company) would not cause interference between company B's vacuum advance unit and company A's intake runner. Just try the stock distributor orientation with an Edelbrock STR crossram...
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Absolutely correct. Sometimes you MUST differ from the standard procedure. My point is to try not to as much as possible. It "usually" results in the best outcome.
 
Don't get me wrong, I install mine per the factory service manual. I have had "mechanics" tell me it can cause running issues.

Back to the original posters problem, the gear can be installed correctly and the advance can still be placed anywhere (within its limits). Last I checked the factory service manual doesn't address the advance placement.

Once I have the gear placed correctly I put the distributor in to where the advance will be in the middle of the space I want it. I will then put a piece of tape on something outside the distributor and mark where the rotor is pointing. Next the cap is put on and the distributor adjusted to line a post up to the rotor using the outside reference on the tape. Put number one wire on and load the rest.

Twenty post later and no follow-up from the original poster on what was found and/or what was done.
His gear may have been correct and just needed the wires moved. He may have been premature in moving the gear.


Alan
 
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Cuda Al said:
The only reason there is a standard in the placement of the gear and the distributor is standardization and ease of troubleshooting, along with having standard length wires.

The engine doesn't care where number one is as long as the rotor is pointed at it at top dead center, likewise with the advance.


Alan
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Lol it has nothing to do with wires, Alan.
Why how do you think they came up with the std length in the 1st place.
This engines intermediate shaft is probably a tooth off from where it should be.
Can you move the intermediate clockwise, counterclockwise and any where in between as long as its no.1 and so on , yeah, not arguing that.. but you'd have to have some odd setup to need to do that.
To each his own, as long as it runs good... wear a belt with your suspenders for all I care..:D
 
Cuda Al said:
Don't get me wrong, I install mine per the factory service manual. I have had "mechanics" tell me it car cause running issues.

Back to the original posters problem, the gear can be installed correctly and the advance can still be placed anywhere (within its limits). Last I checked the factory service manual doesn't address the advance placement.

Once I have the gear placed correctly I put the distributor in to where the advance will be in the middle of the space I want it. I will then put a piece of tape on something outside the distributor and mark where the roto is pointing. Next the cap is put on and the distributor adjusted to line a post up to the rotor using the outside reference on the tape. Put number one wire on and load the rest.

Twenty post later and no follow-up from the original poster on what was found and/or what was done.
His gear may have been correct and just needed the wires moved. He may have been premature in moving the gear.


Alan
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I ended up removing the distributor and re installing according to FSM. My car has its factory type parts with electronic ignition added at some point. I got engine at TDC and moved the distributor drive gear one tooth so that rotor would be pointing at drivers side front left bolt of intake. As I placed distributor in I made sure the VA was pointing parallel with firewall as its starting point. After firing up and adjusting timing by ear I used my light and and I am happy with the outcome. Thanks everyone for all the input. I really appreciate it.
 
gtgto said:
I ended up removing the distributor and re installing according to FSM. My car has its factory type parts with electronic ignition added at some point. I got engine at TDC and moved the distributor drive gear one tooth so that rotor would be pointing at drivers side front left bolt of intake. As I placed distributor in I made sure the VA was pointing parallel with firewall as its starting point. After firing up and adjusting timing by ear I used my light and and I am happy with the outcome. Thanks everyone for all the input. I really appreciate it.
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Hell yeah and that's all that matters!
 
I have always found making distributor adjustment a pain, there is a lot gong on in that tiny area around that distributor lock down bolt. And even more if you add the HEI conversion module which hangs out under the housing. Rotating the distributor as you see in the picture makes it a lot easier to get to the bolt. They are stock wires and fit as they should, pump gear slot and distributor is correct via factory manual. I am thinking I moved the wires 4 towers over, it works great.

IMG_4821.JPG
 
OR you could simply use the correct tool. A distributor wrench.
 
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