Do I need a hardened intermediate shaft for a HV oil pump?

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RustyRatRod said:
This is simply not true. The more volume of oil you move, the more resistance you have. Very simple to test with a drill and a priming tool. The HV pump will have MUCH more resistance than a stock volume. If what you said above is true, there would be no for companies to make hardened oil pump shafts and no need to buy them. You are mistaken. Please don't give people wrong information. They might use it and destroy something. Just because you've done something for 35 years at 7K RPM doesn't make it right. You might try cracking a book now and then.
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I definitely agree with you here, when I primed the oil pump with a drill I had to switch to a corded drill because my cordless drill didn't have enough power to turn it. And because I forgot to plug the oil pressure sender hole I had a geiser of oil shoot up straight in the air, funny now that it's all cleaned up!

I remember priming a standard oil pump in and it was much easier to turn. I will get a new hardened intermediate shaft today, and i'm sure it will fit the bushing.
 
DartVadar said:
And because I forgot to plug the oil pressure sender hole I had a geiser of oil shoot up straight in the air, funny now that it's all cleaned up!
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LOL!!!


The fun part of using an oil pump priming tool - you find any "leaks" and get geysers shot at ya. :D


Been there, done that. :cheers:


I had to jump out of the way when my brother hit the drill on my priming tool while it was still in the engine. It shot about 6 feet at me... :violent1:
 
I've often wondered why use a high volume pump when none of the passages are increased in size and/or have oil modifications. I can see it being helpful if your Bearing clearances are loose.
 
I have a comp hydraulic flat tappet camshaft, I assume it has a regular cam gear? because of that I wouldn't need a bronze or coated gear, Just hardened due to the HV pump?
 
The bronze gears only come in when a billet camshaft is used, such as a solid roller. As long as you have a flat tappet, you will be fine with the regular hardened shaft and iron gear.
 
DartVadar said:
And because I forgot to plug the oil pressure sender hole I had a geiser of oil shoot up straight in the air, funny now that it's all cleaned up!
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Kinda like the time I poured oil into the distributor hole above a blocked off fuel pump mount.....when I had forgotten to put on the block-off plate. I looked AFTER 3 qts were on the floor! LOL
 
nm9stheham said:
Kinda like the time I poured oil into the distributor hole above a blocked off fuel pump mount.....when I had forgotten to put on the block-off plate. I looked AFTER 3 qts were on the floor! LOL
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That would have made quite a mess! LOL

Last year when me and my cousin were priming my grandpas 440 the oil sender unit was installed and it had a bend to it. So I had the drill going and it squirted out, hit my cousin in the face and flew about 15 feet to the back garage door! We had a good laugh about that one! LOL
 
Reamed, rolled, burnished. What's the difference as long as he uses the right tool? Like I told him, if he uses the aftermarket bushing, they require nothing but installation and they are ready to GO.

I am not familiar with the aftermarket bushing; last time I did one was 10 years ago; what is the part number and source? I just checked with 3 stores I use for parts (NAPA, United Auto, and AUTOZONE) they do not even have a listing, let alone a part number.
 
I concede To the geater minds on here. Dose it require more effort to pump a geater volume at a given pressure..Yes... Can you pump a pan dry..yes... If I was building a new engine with perfect clearances on the tight side I would use a standard volume pump with the hardend shaft just for a little extra safety but in my experience the stock piece works fine up to 70 psi with a high volume pump.
Now on the pumping the pan dry deal. if you are sustaining high rpms long enough to pump the pan dry you need to look at the oil return path because something is restricting the drain back. Adding volume to the oil pan will just delay the time it takes to empty the pan slightly.
 
JBurch said:
Reamed, rolled, burnished. What's the difference as long as he uses the right tool? Like I told him, if he uses the aftermarket bushing, they require nothing but installation and they are ready to GO.

I am not familiar with the aftermarket bushing; last time I did one was 10 years ago; what is the part number and source? I just checked with 3 stores I use for parts (NAPA, United Auto, and AUTOZONE) they do not even have a listing, let alone a part number.
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Here you go, sir.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dur-ad-584
 
mod5v said:
I concede To the geater minds on here. Dose it require more effort to pump a geater volume at a given pressure..Yes... Can you pump a pan dry..yes... If I was building a new engine with perfect clearances on the tight side I would use a standard volume pump with the hardend shaft just for a little extra safety but in my experience the stock piece works fine up to 70 psi with a high volume pump.
Now on the pumping the pan dry deal. if you are sustaining high rpms long enough to pump the pan dry you need to look at the oil return path because something is restricting the drain back. Adding volume to the oil pan will just delay the time it takes to empty the pan slightly.
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pppppppppppppphhhhhhhhhtttttttttttt Nobody here has a greater mind. We just all know different stuff.
 
mod5v said:
Now on the pumping the pan dry deal. if you are sustaining high rpms long enough to pump the pan dry you need to look at the oil return path because something is restricting the drain back. Adding volume to the oil pan will just delay the time it takes to empty the pan slightly.
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In my one experience, I had not put on the oil pressure guage due to time limits to the next race and did not realize that I was getting over 100 psi cold; too much relief spring pressure. The fix was to go back down to a more reasonable 60 psi cold. It was not a really a return flow restriction but a true oversupply to the head. I might have survived that incident with a couple more qts in the pan but it would have gotten me eventually. Live and learn!
 
I had a souped up 440 with a HVpump and stock oilpan fullthrottle at 6500rpm for 1-2 minutes straight a few times, but oilpressure stayed stable all the time, so 'in my case' the pan was not sucked 'dry'.

During a dragrace I could see the oil having a hard time getting down to the oilpickup in the center of the pan again when you're constantly accelerating and oil is forced to the rear of the engine first.
 
We've discussed the pan sucking dry thing in depth in the past. It's just not possible. The only one possibility is if the drain back passages in the heads get stopped up, but I believe that's been addressed already here. Other than that, it ain't gonna happen.
 
Good info to have. I got to thinking about my experiences and they were NOT on Chrylser SB's. Excess oil pumping to the head depends both on the oil feed system AND on the drainback system. So I am starting to be a believer that it won't happan on a SB like this one, especially with the time-limited oil feed to the heads on this design; the other engines had constant head oil feeds and were OHC designs.

Another light bulb has lit; thanks for the education!

Edit to add: Are there any full groove cam bearings used for this engine that would make the oil flow contant to the heads?
 
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