dibbons
Well-Known Member
I am going to pay someone to set tile this week in an entryway so I am watching some videos on youtube to determine if the brickmason knows what he is doing. This demonstration video appears to favor backbuttering:
Do You BackButter Your Tile?
- Thread starter dibbons
- Start date
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I always do, I’ve pulled up too many tiles with no mortar on the back at all!
Do it!
I do lots of tile.
I think both methods work when done right.
I more often then not back butter.
On floors is where it can be fast and effective to trowel the floor.
Walls are where I find it more crucial to back butter,but there are exceptions to everything.
An experienced tile guy knows what to look for , how to prep properly and signs of good or poor adhesion.
Best of luck.
Jim
I think both methods work when done right.
I more often then not back butter.
On floors is where it can be fast and effective to trowel the floor.
Walls are where I find it more crucial to back butter,but there are exceptions to everything.
An experienced tile guy knows what to look for , how to prep properly and signs of good or poor adhesion.
Best of luck.
Jim
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Interesting video; tnx. The narrator did seem to have a bias favoring back-buttering. What this narrator did not discuss is how the substrate does or does not suck water out of the mix. The last substrate, a plastic or synthetic material, showed 100% bond adherence to the non-buttered tile.... and I'll guess that is because the synthetic substrate does not want to suck moisture out of the bond. And both techniques showed poor adherence over plywood.... probably because it sucks the moisture out of the compound a LOT.
OP, if you are going over concrete, the mix and the moisture are gonna be more key than the buttering technique...just my opinion. You ought to have a good firm floor to work over...let's hope!
FWIW..... I put down a moderate bunch of tile 30 years ago when I built our house. It went over cement backer in each case installed over a good, heavy wood floor system with less deflection than the allowed code maximums. No back-buttering, and very little wiggling the tiles in, just a firm press on each; made sure the set compound was adequately wet and the backer board wetted slightly before spreading the compound. After 30 years.. no cracks, no lifted tiles, no grout cracks, no releasing, nothing; both tile areas are in traffic areas. But I don't do this as a trade; if I did, I might back-butter to try to reduce the chances of call-backs.
IMHO, the real matters are firmness and stability of the substrate and the flooring under it, and the wetness to be sure the substrate does not suck out excess moisture and hurt the bond strength. As for end bond strength, it has to be 'good enough'. So that is probably why if you take care of the floor setup and mix, it can work adequately either way.
Someday I may do some facing rock in a cold climate (western WY).... that's gonna be interesting!
OP, if you are going over concrete, the mix and the moisture are gonna be more key than the buttering technique...just my opinion. You ought to have a good firm floor to work over...let's hope!
FWIW..... I put down a moderate bunch of tile 30 years ago when I built our house. It went over cement backer in each case installed over a good, heavy wood floor system with less deflection than the allowed code maximums. No back-buttering, and very little wiggling the tiles in, just a firm press on each; made sure the set compound was adequately wet and the backer board wetted slightly before spreading the compound. After 30 years.. no cracks, no lifted tiles, no grout cracks, no releasing, nothing; both tile areas are in traffic areas. But I don't do this as a trade; if I did, I might back-butter to try to reduce the chances of call-backs.
IMHO, the real matters are firmness and stability of the substrate and the flooring under it, and the wetness to be sure the substrate does not suck out excess moisture and hurt the bond strength. As for end bond strength, it has to be 'good enough'. So that is probably why if you take care of the floor setup and mix, it can work adequately either way.
Someday I may do some facing rock in a cold climate (western WY).... that's gonna be interesting!
So I in no way think that I know even close to all there is to know about tile.
What I can say is I mainly do kitchens and bathrooms.
More bathrooms than kitchens.
Mostly showers .
Knock on wood !
I have never had a call back .
I have done build ups where I do a liner and a mud base pan, I have also used wedi, and hydroblock, systems.
As showers go I prefer a pre maid pan, even though I make more money doing tile pans.
I often have custom made pans.
I will not use hardi backer.
I prefer cement board .
I believe prep is the most important part !
It will make or break the job !
Just like bodywork for a paint job on a car !
Tile is not really that difficult to do.
Yes like anything there are tricks, and with time and experience you get better.
YouTube can be good and bad !
I hope you job turns out awesome !
Jim
What I can say is I mainly do kitchens and bathrooms.
More bathrooms than kitchens.
Mostly showers .
Knock on wood !
I have never had a call back .
I have done build ups where I do a liner and a mud base pan, I have also used wedi, and hydroblock, systems.
As showers go I prefer a pre maid pan, even though I make more money doing tile pans.
I often have custom made pans.
I will not use hardi backer.
I prefer cement board .
I believe prep is the most important part !
It will make or break the job !
Just like bodywork for a paint job on a car !
Tile is not really that difficult to do.
Yes like anything there are tricks, and with time and experience you get better.
YouTube can be good and bad !
I hope you job turns out awesome !
Jim
daves66valiant
68 Dart 340/727:66 Signet Vert 340/5spd: 68 D100
Have always preferred back-buttered tiles. I’ve done a lot over the years. It’s an extra step but I feel I don’t need to press the tiles in place nearly as much and get less mortar joint squish out.
dibbons
Well-Known Member
No doubt those preparations are recommended, but here in Mexico all I ever see is tile air right over the dry concrete floor in the shower. If the Mexican installers are doing that in my place, be assured they are doing the same thing everyday all over town. Hope there is not a flood of soap scum seeping into the water table around here (LOL).
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Curious as to why you don't like the Hardie backer, Jim. (Purely for my education.. I have no opinion either way.)
Kitty wants some Mexican tile I bought her put on the wall of the kitchen as a backsplash. I know absolutely zero about it, but guess who gets to do it? It will be a learning experience fo sho and fo certain. lol
With back butter dont you get like 95-100% coverage which is recommended I believe.
There is also vertical and horizontal tiles?
There is also vertical and horizontal tiles?
dibbons
Well-Known Member
The tile guys showed up and asked me to wash down the cement with muriatic acid since it has a synthetic emulsion polymer sealer on it. Well, the last time I used something strong to clean (the shower) I coughed for months.
First I tried some wax and grease remover with a wire brush and the water no longer is beading up so I believe it works (and I like the smell). If that is the case, I will forego the acid, although I know it etches the concrete (which is a good idea). My health is more important than some loose tile I may find some day.
First I tried some wax and grease remover with a wire brush and the water no longer is beading up so I believe it works (and I like the smell). If that is the case, I will forego the acid, although I know it etches the concrete (which is a good idea). My health is more important than some loose tile I may find some day.
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