Dyno'd the Magnum.

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423dak

423dak

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I have been watching Lxguy to see how he has been doing with his 5.9l. Our cam specs are quite close. I have mopar aluminum heads 202/160, cross winds air gap (don't shoot me it was cheap as the numbers show) and a 750 dominator. Had some issues, so we tried a 750 quick fuel which the engine made the best power. 392hp 415ft/tor. With my dominator it was 390hp 406ft/tor. I think it would pick up a bunch with an eddy and a smaller 750. Torque was at 398 @ 3000rpm and almost flat to 5400. Very happy with the results. This engine ran 13.60 in the heat in my Dakota with fuel injection and less cam. So should run well in the Dart.
 
Pretty awesome numbers! Are those the Mopar RT aluminums?

The Quickfuel Q-750 is what I'm running on my car. It seems to like it a lot. Driveability seems better than with my Street Avenger 670 if you can believe that.

The real Air Gap is worth a ton over the knockoff. My experience is only with the LA intake, but they're probably both the same.
 
Last week they dyno'd a small ford with the knock off on it. It made 273hp. Put an Eddy on it, that is all they did, and it made 295hp. Not sure on the heads. Mopar magnum style heads that were work on the ports a bit and put the 202s in them. I think that casting was for the 192 valve. The engine seem to like the timing but the fellow said he wouldn't push it past 36* on stock cast pistons.
 
Stock magnum pistons are hypereutectics. They are much tougher than old school cast pistons. Detonation with boost or nitrous will kill them pretty fast, but I've never heard of anyone breaking one N/A.

I ran 40* on mine for a little while last summer, but again, mine made best power at 38*

Yeah, that knockoff intake has some issues. Port alignment on mine was just terrible, and the runners are smaller than a real Air Gap. Also the runner shape is just "however they felt like doing it" without regard for the fact that it actually matters for horsepower.

What RPM was your HP peak?
 
5500 which is right where I shifted the Dakota. 430s with 28" tire should be perfect. With the Q-750 the HP was still climbing. What RPM will the stock bottom end handle?
 
I don't know yet. haha

I know it'll go at least 6400 a couple of times.
 
Ha. I'd like to go more then 3 rounds. I will run the setup I have and be safe. Will change intake first the carb if the Dominator doesn't like the Eddy. I want to run two classes. Bracket Pro car and we have a Stock/Super Stock series that I can run crate motor class. Index is 11.65 though. I'm a long wy from there I would think. Thanks for the info. Love your car, mine will be very similar. 9" tire, no tub and full interior and not a sticker on it!
 
LXguy said:
The real Air Gap is worth a ton over the knockoff. My experience is only with the LA intake, but they're probably both the same.
Click to expand...

The real problems is that edelbrock is to damn greedy to give us a dual bolt pattern manifold.

I have the "knockoff" air gap because i had an LA and knew i'd be going magnum if it ever blew.(which it did).

I would have bought an edelbrock without a doubt if it had the dual bolt pattern. :thumbdow:
 
I saw on Summit yesterday that they wanted $15 more for the crosswinds then the Eddy. Hope there is not too many suckers out there.
 
LXguy said:
Pretty awesome numbers! Are those the Mopar RT aluminums?

The Quickfuel Q-750 is what I'm running on my car. It seems to like it a lot. Driveability seems better than with my Street Avenger 670 if you can believe that.

The real Air Gap is worth a ton over the knockoff. My experience is only with the LA intake, but they're probably both the same.
Click to expand...

What are your cam specs, I have magnum also and my set up is very similar to yours. Also, great job on the engine and the dyno numbers.
 
I don't know why so many people have been slamming the Crosswinds. I know several people that are running them and they don't have the casting/porous/poor port alignment etc etc. I also have one and I don't have any of the issues mentioned either. Now if they want to slam it because it is made in China and it is taking jobs away from americans, then I don't have a problem with it. My guess is that there may be a quality control issue and on different days there may be different guys on the assembly line/ or it is manufactured in two different plants.. A friend of mine who is a Mopar guy for 40 years is also an engine builder and owns a full machine shop and he swears by the crosswind for the price. I would also like to see a dyno comparison because I find it extremely hard to believe that there is a 15 horsepower difference Edelbrock air gap and Crosswind.
 
Comp custom grind.
Groos lift .577/.572
Duration @.005 230/236
110 cnetr line.
My dyno guy hear said they have had no success with the cross winds. I will be buying an Eddy once I have a base line at the track and will let everyone know. When I first was looking for info on the crosswinds that was all I heard was Jap crap. Took a chance and the #'s aren't bad!
 
Cam specs sound good. Are you sure the stock magnum pistons are hypers?? I was considering a 150 shot with an MSD retard of 6 degrees but now I'm hesitant because the pistons are hypers and I have also heard that hypers wont hold up nitrous because they are too brittle???Is that it that, hypers are too brittle or what ????
 
423dak said:
Comp custom grind.
Groos lift .577/.572
Duration @.005 230/236
110 cnetr line.
My dyno guy hear said they have had no success with the cross winds. I will be buying an Eddy once I have a base line at the track and will let everyone know. When I first was looking for info on the crosswinds that was all I heard was Jap crap. Took a chance and the #'s aren't bad!
Click to expand...

weird because I know 2 mopar guys who only use these, check MRL performance for one.
 
423dak said:
I saw on Summit yesterday that they wanted $15 more for the crosswinds then the Eddy. Hope there is not too many suckers out there.
Click to expand...

well, sucks for them. Mine was close to 100-150$ cheaper off of ebay.

And mine is a decent casting with no defects. And the car ran well for the hundred miles or so before it started burning oil and running poorly on the highway.
 
423dak said:
Comp custom grind.
Groos lift .577/.572
Duration @.005 230/236
110 cnetr line.
Click to expand...

My cam is similar to that, but smaller. Also comp cams.

224/230
.536/.544
110 lobe sep.

Obviously I have no idea how the lobes themselves compare, but being that they're both comp it might be safe to assume that yours are at least as aggressive as mine?


74Burntorange said:
weird because I know 2 mopar guys who only use these, check MRL performance for one.
Click to expand...

If they only use those, how do they know the Edelbrock isn't better? LOL

magnumdust said:
well, sucks for them. Mine was close to 100-150$ cheaper off of ebay.

And mine is a decent casting with no defects. And the car ran well for the hundred miles or so before it started burning oil and running poorly on the highway.
Click to expand...

haha, might have started burning oil because there were left over tin can parts in the intake.

First off, the Pro Products isn't actually a "knock off" air gap. It does have "air gapped" runners and it is dual plane. However, the cross section and runner shape are different.

The performance difference in the Edelbrock for the price difference is some of the cheapest $$$/horsepower you will ever buy.

I saw the exact same thing on the EFI Ford side with the pro products stuff. Their "typhoon" ford intake didn't perform as well as the Ford Cobra/Explorer intake, much less the Performer RPM it was based on.

There is added hassle with the Magnums because you can either run the Edelbrock Magnum version, or get the heads drilled so they can take the LA style.

Here are the wholesale costs of the various intakes (though I'm sure Summit pays even less)

Pro Products $159.50
Edelbrock LA style: $237.94
Edelbrock Magnum $262.99

For you guys who think you don't have a port mismatch, here is the procedure, since on a dual plane you can't just look down the carb plenum:

Place new intake gaskets on heads lined up with the ports as best as you are able. trim any overlap.
Put intake on engine and torque down like you would on install.
Scribe visible portion of intake gasket with an awl at the "edge" where the manifold meets the gasket. This way you'll be able to see *exactly how the manifold sits against the gasket, and thus the head if you lined it up right.

Pull intake manifold and gaskets. Line manifold up against gaskets as run and check port mismatch.

Holding an unmounted intake gasket up against the intake without doing this whole thing tells you nothing at all.

For s stockish 318/360 they're probably fine, but for anything serious, the real deal is the only way to go.

FYI: Even though I don't like the Pro Products intake , I'll beat Summit's $243.95 by $45.00 if you want one!!!! LOL LOL haha
 
dustoff440 said:
Cam specs sound good. Are you sure the stock magnum pistons are hypers?? I was considering a 150 shot with an MSD retard of 6 degrees but now I'm hesitant because the pistons are hypers and I have also heard that hypers wont hold up nitrous because they are too brittle???Is that it that, hypers are too brittle or what ????
Click to expand...

Yes, Magnum pistons are hypers.

Hyper pistons will die before forged ones will due to detonation, but they are much stronger than old timey cast stuff.

I haven't done any power adder stuff on my Magnum engine yet, but the weakness of the hypers is vastly overstated in my opinion.

First off, I would not run a 150 shot on a dual plane intake. Maybe if it was the Zex perimeter deal, maybe.

That said:

On the Ford side, I have run 15 pounds of boost on hyper pistons and more than 150hp nitrous (NOTE: NOT at the same time!!)with no issues. But I had the tune right, so no detonation.

I've seen numerous LS GM motors take 200 hp nitrous without issue.

Work up to it, use good gas, take it easy with the timing and pay attention to what you're doing and I'm sure you wouldn't have any problems at 150.

But I'm not buying you a new motor if it blows up either. haha
:axe:
 
LXguy said:
My cam is similar to that, but smaller. Also comp cams.

224/230
.536/.544
110 lobe sep.

Obviously I have no idea how the lobes themselves compare, but being that they're both comp it might be safe to assume that yours are at least as aggressive as mine?




If they only use those, how do they know the Edelbrock isn't better? LOL



haha, might have started burning oil because there were left over tin can parts in the intake.

First off, the Pro Products isn't actually a "knock off" air gap. It does have "air gapped" runners and it is dual plane. However, the cross section and runner shape are different.

The performance difference in the Edelbrock for the price difference is some of the cheapest $$$/horsepower you will ever buy.

I saw the exact same thing on the EFI Ford side with the pro products stuff. Their "typhoon" ford intake didn't perform as well as the Ford Cobra/Explorer intake, much less the Performer RPM it was based on.

There is added hassle with the Magnums because you can either run the Edelbrock Magnum version, or get the heads drilled so they can take the LA style.

Here are the wholesale costs of the various intakes (though I'm sure Summit pays even less)

Pro Products $159.50
Edelbrock LA style: $237.94
Edelbrock Magnum $262.99

For you guys who think you don't have a port mismatch, here is the procedure, since on a dual plane you can't just look down the carb plenum:

Place new intake gaskets on heads lined up with the ports as best as you are able. trim any overlap.
Put intake on engine and torque down like you would on install.
Scribe visible portion of intake gasket with an awl at the "edge" where the manifold meets the gasket. This way you'll be able to see *exactly how the manifold sits against the gasket, and thus the head if you lined it up right.

Pull intake manifold and gaskets. Line manifold up against gaskets as run and check port mismatch.

Holding an unmounted intake gasket up against the intake without doing this whole thing tells you nothing at all.

For s stockish 318/360 they're probably fine, but for anything serious, the real deal is the only way to go.

FYI: Even though I don't like the Pro Products intake , I'll beat Summit's $243.95 by $45.00 if you want one!!!! LOL LOL haha
Click to expand...

interesting theory, but my engine was burning a very small amount of oil beforehand. It wasnt that noticable and i figured it just had to do with the age of the engine. Which is why i planned w/ the crosswind intake to go magnum after it popped. I just wish the damn thing would have gone another year.
 
LXguy said:
My cam is similar to that, but smaller. Also comp cams.

224/230
.536/.544
110 lobe sep.

Obviously I have no idea how the lobes themselves compare, but being that they're both comp it might be safe to assume that yours are at least as aggressive as mine?




If they only use those, how do they know the Edelbrock isn't better? LOL



haha, might have started burning oil because there were left over tin can parts in the intake.

First off, the Pro Products isn't actually a "knock off" air gap. It does have "air gapped" runners and it is dual plane. However, the cross section and runner shape are different.

The performance difference in the Edelbrock for the price difference is some of the cheapest $$$/horsepower you will ever buy.

I saw the exact same thing on the EFI Ford side with the pro products stuff. Their "typhoon" ford intake didn't perform as well as the Ford Cobra/Explorer intake, much less the Performer RPM it was based on.

There is added hassle with the Magnums because you can either run the Edelbrock Magnum version, or get the heads drilled so they can take the LA style.

Here are the wholesale costs of the various intakes (though I'm sure Summit pays even less)

Pro Products $159.50
Edelbrock LA style: $237.94
Edelbrock Magnum $262.99

For you guys who think you don't have a port mismatch, here is the procedure, since on a dual plane you can't just look down the carb plenum:

Place new intake gaskets on heads lined up with the ports as best as you are able. trim any overlap.
Put intake on engine and torque down like you would on install.
Scribe visible portion of intake gasket with an awl at the "edge" where the manifold meets the gasket. This way you'll be able to see *exactly how the manifold sits against the gasket, and thus the head if you lined it up right.

Pull intake manifold and gaskets. Line manifold up against gaskets as run and check port mismatch.

Holding an unmounted intake gasket up against the intake without doing this whole thing tells you nothing at all.

For s stockish 318/360 they're probably fine, but for anything serious, the real deal is the only way to go.

FYI: Even though I don't like the Pro Products intake , I'll beat Summit's $243.95 by $45.00 if you want one!!!! LOL LOL haha
Click to expand...


Because the Eddys he has worked with had port issues and leaks. He had to send a lot back. I see no difference in either and Im willing to bet that it flows better than an eddy or makes more power. Also might depend on the motor it is on. some guys have used it over the M1 and picked up MPH and 1/4 time
 
also im yet to see someone take off a MOPAR cross wind and go to a Eddy AG and see a gain or even see results. There always on a ford or GM
 
I firmly believe you get what you pay for. I will switch the intake at some point and post the results. The car is not close to being ready. So it may be a while.
 
423dak said:
I firmly believe you get what you pay for. I will switch the intake at some point and post the results. The car is not close to being ready. So it may be a while.
Click to expand...

But there is also the very true point that you pay for a name and from what i've been able to find. Thats been the only real complaint. People piss and moan about 1. being an off brand and 2. not being made in america.

Both have the same problem of occasionally spitting out bad intakes that need to be returned.
 
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