Dyno'd the Magnum.

[LXguy]

I see no difference in either and Im willing to bet that it flows better than an eddy or makes more power.

This tells me you have not seen the two of them side by side. What are you basing this bet on? Have you compared runner sizes? plenums? port dimensions? How much?

Also might depend on the motor it is on. some guys have used it over the M1 and picked up MPH and 1/4 time

Could be because someone stuck an M1 on a low RPM motor, also might depend on someone's skill (or severe lack thereof) at tuning a carb on a single plane intake.

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

This tells me you have not seen the two of them side by side. What are you basing this bet on? Have you compared runner sizes? plenums? port dimensions? How much?



Could be because someone stuck an M1 on a low RPM motor, also might depend on someone's skill (or severe lack thereof) at tuning a carb on a single plane intake.

low rpm motor? The guys car was in mopar muscle for having a 318 that ran 11s. Im basing the bet on putting the car on a dyno and swithcing intakes..Thats the bet. have you done any of what you said? Highly doubtful.

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

http://www.mopartech.net/showthread.php?t=6494&highlight=crosswind

 

[LXguy]

have you done any of what you said? Highly doubtful.

And what are you basing that on? I've been posting on here for a while about my experiences with these intakes. Read on.

Is there a link to the moparmuscle article in the link you posted? I couldn't find it, or anything else you reference. Where's the 318 car that runs 11s? The only reference in that thread to a dyno comparo says the real Edelbrock made 12 more hp and 8 ft lbs more torque.

If you've got an actual link to a dyno comparison, I'd love to see it.

Are you talking about the 318 MRL took to Engine Masters? With the way that turned out, I wouldn't do any bragging on it.

Here's the deal: Certain Vendors LOVE the Chinese intake...

Do you think its because there's a lot more markup to be made on it than on the edelbrock? With the Eddy a vendor can make maybe $20 and be around summit's price. With the Chinese deal, its more like $75.00.

I checked the ports on my Air Gaps (and FYI I've had both the Magnum and the LA version), using the method I outlined above, and neither one of them was off by a c hair.

Whereas the Chinese deal...

Both photos are from the same side of the intake. Keep in mind this gasket was balls on with the intake ports on the head.

You would have to port the damn head to match up to the ports on this intake. The openings are right into the divider between the head ports.

You keep that POS intake and lets race for money.

 

[LXguy]

Shot of port comparison between Crosswind and Air Gap:

Of course, Air gap is farther away so its hard to tell, but its runners are actually larger. Note the regular shape of the port openings on the air gap vs. the Chinese where one port is actually 1/8" higher than the other. Umm. WTF.

 

[LXguy]

Runner comparison:

Air Gap:

Notice big ports, gentle bends, mmm horsepower.

Crosswind

Notice sharp bends and how runner is wide, then skinny, then wide again right by the port exit. Mmmm China!

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

he was in the readers rides."Just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I have officially broke into the 11's. This past weekend I ran 11.85 @ 116.56 mph. This L'il 318 is flying and the converter is fantastic. I told a good friend about how great you were to deal with on the converter and after he saw how much better the car ran with your converter vs the old TCI one he bought one of you converters for his 318 car too. Still have some suspension tuning to do, some launch RPM testing, some shift point testing and I now have to put in a roll cage before I can go back to the track. Thanks again for the great converter!!!" November/2006

he has the dark green duster thats on ACC website and switched intakes


And thats good you have the intakes that show the difference. It doesnt mean they are all top quality. How many Air gap intakes an cross wind intakes do you posses or see each day? Because MRL builds motors and sees the intakes all the time, so i believe his word is stronger than yours, being he doesnt see the same intakes each day as where you do. I need a Dyno on the same motor to prove it. And it needs to be a mopar not a chevy or ford, as the ports might be different size also.

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

This motor made 441hp with it. http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6526468&an=0&page=2

 

[res1vw21]

he was in the readers rides."Just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I have officially broke into the 11's. This past weekend I ran 11.85 @ 116.56 mph. This L'il 318 is flying and the converter is fantastic. I told a good friend about how great you were to deal with on the converter and after he saw how much better the car ran with your converter vs the old TCI one he bought one of you converters for his 318 car too. Still have some suspension tuning to do, some launch RPM testing, some shift point testing and I now have to put in a roll cage before I can go back to the track. Thanks again for the great converter!!!" November/2006

he has the dark green duster thats on ACC website and switched intakes


And thats good you have the intakes that show the difference. It doesnt mean they are all top quality. How many Air gap intakes an cross wind intakes do you posses or see each day? Because MRL builds motors and sees the intakes all the time, so i believe his word is stronger than yours, being he doesnt see the same intakes each day as where you do. I need a Dyno on the same motor to prove it. And it needs to be a mopar not a chevy or ford, as the ports might be different size also.

From what I have seen the intakes that LXguy has are not uncommon. I have a friend who had a crosswind that actually broke when he was tightening it down, he had used it on several different engines previously, anyway the ports looked a lot like the ones pictured here. I have to believe that robs power since I have a basic understanding of fluid dynamics. There is a reason that I bought an eddy, lol well two reasons, I want more power and I try to buy made in USA.

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

From what I have seen the intakes that LXguy has are not uncommon. I have a friend who had a crosswind that actually broke when he was tightening it down, he had used it on several different engines previously, anyway the ports looked a lot like the ones pictured here. I have to believe that robs power since I have a basic understanding of fluid dynamics. There is a reason that I bought an eddy, lol well two reasons, I want more power and I try to buy made in USA.

I bought mine used, so it doesnt matter if it was made in the USA. This argument is not valid for many reasons. Do you know how many parts on GM, Mopar and Ford made cars are made out of the USA? Sure eddy is made in the USA, but does not mean it is better. Im yet to see anyone see gains going from either to the other. Until then, they both have crappy issues with some of the intakes that come out, not all. I would be willing to when I finish the car and get it down to where I live now, dyno the current setup and then switch to the Eddy used or not if someone wants to help chip in or something for the intake or dyno time and settle this once and for all.

 

[res1vw21]

I bought mine used, so it doesnt matter if it was made in the USA. This argument is not valid for many reasons. Do you know how many parts on GM, Mopar and Ford made cars are made out of the USA? Sure eddy is made in the USA, but does not mean it is better. Im yet to see anyone see gains going from either to the other. Until then, they both have crappy issues with some of the intakes that come out, not all. I would be willing to when I finish the car and get it down to where I live now, dyno the current setup and then switch to the Eddy used or not if someone wants to help chip in or something for the intake or dyno time and settle this once and for all.

Hate to break it to you but it does matter that it came from China, the metallurgy is different, typically it has a lot more impurities in it. (Yes there are some bad eddy intakes out there)
It also doesn't matter if you bought it used or not someone still sent there money over there.

Yes new cars have lots of parts made in other countries, I also don't happen to own anything newer then my '79 Aspen which incidentally was still made in the USA.
Edit: Also to me made in Canada is just as good as made in USA.

Here yha go where cars are made http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html

I too would like to see a direct comparison and would be willing to do it myself if someone donated (for use, not to keep) a crosswind and dyno time, but for now I will just stick with what is in my opinion a better built unit.

 

[LXguy]

he has the dark green duster thats on ACC website and switched intakes

That's Phil's old car. That was a nitrous car. Ran 13s on motor...

And thats good you have the intakes that show the difference. It doesnt mean they are all top quality. How many Air gap intakes an cross wind intakes do you posses or see each day?

Oh brother. OK, so even if you see a dyno comparison it won't make any difference to you. You'll say that was one of the "good" edelbrocks and one of the "bad" Pro Products. Never mind the smaller runners and poor shape, or the poor casting quality, or the fact that every dyno test between a pro products and an edelbrock (even if it is other engine manufacturers) shows the edelbrock on top.

Next time save everyone the trouble and just say:
"The edelbrock isn't better because I don't want it to be."

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

That's Phil's old car. That was a nitrous car. Ran 13s on motor...



Oh brother. OK, so even if you see a dyno comparison it won't make any difference to you. You'll say that was one of the "good" edelbrocks and one of the "bad" Pro Products. Never mind the smaller runners and poor shape, or the poor casting quality, or the fact that every dyno test between a pro products and an edelbrock (even if it is other engine manufacturers) shows the edelbrock on top.

Next time save everyone the trouble and just say:
"The edelbrock isn't better because I don't want it to be."

yes that is phil's car...still a 11 second 318 car.

and no I wont. I just want to see the dyno comparison because my Crosswind doesnt look like yours. So if I saw a dyno saying that the Eddy did make more with no other changes other than intake, I would get it. And if I got one with ports that did not match i would keep sending it back until I got one that did.

I poste the mopartech link with the ports of the Eddy that were way off. I could be making the same argument as you, but all I want is the most hp and until either is proven to make more than one another, I will stick with what I have because my ports are fine. Also I would have to by the magnum version, possibly more expensive.

 

[LXguy]

yes that is phil's car...still a 11 second 318 car.

Can you see perhaps how an 11 second nitrous 318 might want a different intake than a naturally aspirated one? N/A car is going to probably want 6500+ RPM, whereas a nitrous car might turn 1000 RPM less.

The differences between an Air Gap and a Pro Products intake are going to be significantly smaller on a 13 second NA combo, than an 11 second one. Further, there's probably no 13 second combo that would want a single plane M1 intake instead of a dual plane due to the cost in low end torque with the single plane.

And if it was the dual plane M1 he switched from and made more power, who cares? The m1 dual is not difficult to beat, even with jacked up Chinese runners.

LOADS of cars run 13s with the stock iron four barrel intakes, so they're then potentially as good as the Crosswind I suppose.

I just want to see the dyno comparison because my Crosswind doesn't look like yours.

I would love to see a comparison too, but I'm pretty certain what the outcome is going to be.

Do you suppose that the tolerances in construction are so varied that the Pro Products could go from making significantly less power to significantly more power than the Air Gap just based on casting variances? What would that say about them?

Post up some pics of yours. I would love to see them.

Steve

 

[LXguy]

I also don't happen to own anything newer then my '79 Aspen which indecently was still made in the USA.

I think you mean incidentally instead of indecently.

;)

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

Can you see perhaps how an 11 second nitrous 318 might want a different intake than a naturally aspirated one? N/A car is going to probably want 6500+ RPM, whereas a nitrous car might turn 1000 RPM less.

The differences between an Air Gap and a Pro Products intake are going to be significantly smaller on a 13 second NA combo, than an 11 second one. Further, there's probably no 13 second combo that would want a single plane M1 intake instead of a dual plane due to the cost in low end torque with the single plane.

And if it was the dual plane M1 he switched from and made more power, who cares? The m1 dual is not difficult to beat, even with jacked up Chinese runners.

LOADS of cars run 13s with the stock iron four barrel intakes, so they're then potentially as good as the Crosswind I suppose.



I would love to see a comparison too, but I'm pretty certain what the outcome is going to be.

Do you suppose that the tolerances in construction are so varied that the Pro Products could go from making significantly less power to significantly more power than the Air Gap just based on casting variances? What would that say about them?

Post up some pics of yours. I would love to see them.

Steve

Mine is actually on the car and matched the ports of the New RHS X heads and Eddy intake gaskets well, but If I find a eddy air gap cheap with good ports I will buy it and try it once I get the motor completely dialed in.

 

[res1vw21]

I think you mean incidentally instead of indecently.

;)

lol thanks I was typing fast

 

[423dak]

I posted the Dyno #s and I have started doing some work to the car. This is not going to be an over night project. It is off to the body shop for the quarters. Then back home for the cage and assembly before final paint. Here she is.

 

[crackedback]

What was the HP peak rpm? I'm guessing it was in the 5800-6000 area knowing what cam you have and what others with similar cams have run.

How much preload on the lifters?

 

[423dak]

The HP peak with my carb was at 5500. With the engine builders carb it was still climbing at 5600, but it is stock bottom end with 20k miles on it. Just being safe. New intake and some money saved up late next season I may stretch it out a bit.:burnout:

 

[LXguy]

Looking good in the pics. I really dig that color.

 

[moper]

Edelbrock has some core shift issues. With heads and intakes. But the Crosswind is a cheap *** intake, nothing more. You can bolt a 2bbl on a strong engine and it will run strong. But not AS strong as a 4bbl. The facts are the Crosswind is cheap, and has the dual pattern for the money, which is why they get used a lot. It has nothing to do with peformance. The RPM will crush it every time. I have run both, I won't save the cash on a Crosswind any more. A lot comes down to "good enough". If it's affordable and runs strong and well enough for the owner/builder, and doesnt leak, great. For me, they leak due to porosity, They are not cast well, they don't fit well, the threaded holes have to be tapped, they also have core shift, and once you do get them on and sealed and running, the RPM will make more power. Generally requiring jetting changes just due to more air getting thru them. Doubt all you want. Require proof all you want. If you want a back to back test, those that run them, buy an RPM and see what it does for you. If I didn't see it, I might doubt too.
An engine that picks up power going from a single pane to a dual plane had the wrong intake on it initially anyway.

 

[moper]

This motor made 441hp with it. http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6526468&an=0&page=2

The numbers are high IMO, but no higher than I'd expect with no parasitic loss and cooling the intake just before the pull. It's kind of like seeing that perfect Big Mac in the adds, vs the one you open at the table... RAMM does state that the one pull he posted he tricked for the numbers. That's not a complaint on my part... But I think it should be noted this is not as the engine would be in the customer's car. He lost power when he left it more realistic, and interestingly the spacer and carb made little difference. That's one sign the intake is holding it back too. Still good numbers, but I'd like to see that back to back testing.

 

[423dak]

I love the color too. I like the old original look. I wish I hadn't mentioned the crosswinds intake though. I got it unused from a guy for $100 and as you can see from the pics I can use the other $200 for other parts.

 

[423dak]

Pics from the body shop. Should have it back home in primer later this week. Then assembly can start. Going to clone to a 71. Leaves more option for stock eliminator.