dynoed my 416

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moparmade43

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I dynoed my 416 on saturday, 465 hp/510 torque on pump gas, 483/526 torque on race gas. It has slightly worked edelbrock heads, 236 @ .050 hydraulic roller, .550/.570, edelbrock air gap, tti headers, holley ultra 4150 race carb 750 cfm worked over, flows around 830 cfm. I think the carb is too small, as a 950 proform out of the box the dyno operator had lying around made about 10-12 more torque and hp than mine without even any tuning. I also think my headers are on the small side, I'd like 1 7/8 but I dont think anything else will fit nicely. Car is '75 duster, 3.91 gears, 727 manual valve body, 3500 flash stall 9.5 inch. What do you guys think. I think it should be pretty wicked for a street car. Any suggestions before I drop it in? Any 1/4 mile predictions.

-Will
 
stay with what you have - it will be a great combo for the street/strip. engine dyno #s are great if you are competing against Dynos!!
Hope youhave spent some time/$$$ on suspension upgrades - you will need them.
 
It is more wicked than what I am currently building for a bracket car.:angry7:

You should be right at 12.0 IF you can hook it up. With some tuning in the high 11's.
 
Nice street combo. 4" stroker love big carbs. The 950 would be ok and I doudt think you will feel a lose in throttle response on the street with the bigger throttle plates.

TTIs arent know for the power they make but nothing else fits as good as they do.
 
Man it sounds like it will be a rocket. Let us know how it feels when you get it in the car. Jeff
 
Hard to beat tti or Dougs headers on the street.

That engine is capable of putting a 3500# car deep into the 11's

I wouldn't toss more money at engine upgrades. Work on the chassis. Want to go fast at the track, overchassis and undermotor. Most folks do the opposite. People will spend 20K on an engine but not a nickle on chassis items that will make the car work.

Nice stout street engine you have there!
 
For the street I'd stay with the carb you have. Did you change the springs and retainers on those heads or are you running the standard Edelbrock springs and retainers?
 
Thanks for the comments guys, I can't wait to get it in the car. What kind of ideas do you have for suspension mods to get this thing to hook. I am up for any ideas except a cage, I like the stock interior. Also, they are not the stock edelbrock springs and retainers fastback, they are the stiffer springs and retainers that were recommended by comp when they ground my cam. I can't remember the part numbers. I might run it first with this carb, but I think that the 750 carb is not flowing enough air. We shall see. I think 950 sounds right.
 
Also, after the horsepower peaked, it hung on until around 6100 rpm nice and flat. The torque curve was VERY flat. I think at 3600 rpm it was 491 and at 5000 was still puttin out 500 ft lbs.
 
Caltrac mono-leaf and traction control bars, splicer U-joints, adjustable 3-9 way shocks. - as much tire as you can fit.
 
US Car Tool sub frame connectors would be helpful as far as chassis mods go.

Ryan at Shady Dell Speed Shop told me to run a 750 Holley Double Pumper for the street 414 stroker I am building. He says on the dyno an engine like what I am building will only really need about 710 cfm of flow. He says I can run a bigger carb but it won't help. I am going with Edelbrock Stage 2 ported heads from Shady Dell. He also recommended a Crane 699641 hydraulic roller cam which is what I will be going with.
 
moparmade43 said:
Hp peak was 5600, torque peak was 4300 rpm
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moparmade43 said:
Also, after the horsepower peaked, it hung on until around 6100 rpm nice and flat. The torque curve was VERY flat. I think at 3600 rpm it was 491 and at 5000 was still puttin out 500 ft lbs.
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Given the fact that the HP hung until 6100 makes me think that you need more cylinder head flow to really get the most out of your combo. A bigger carb will compensate somewhat although I'm thinking that a 850 should be a good comprimise for street/strip use. That engine seems to want more air and that's a good thing!

Nice numbers BTW and congratz. :cheers:
 
Thanks for the encouragement ramcharger. Yeah, I think the heads could use a stage II porting sometime down the road, but for now I'm gonna drop it in and see what she'll do. I can always get some more air to it in the future. just out of curiosity 340sfastback, did he give you any flow numbers on those stage II Edelbrocks. I would guess mine are a stage I. Just basic port work. I think the intake flows something like 268 at .550 lift, cant remember the exhaust. I wonder if 1.6 rockers would help compensate for the heads ramcharger?
 
moparmade43 said:
just out of curiosity 340sfastback, did he give you any flow numbers on those stage II Edelbrocks.
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I will get a flow sheet when I get them which will be few weeks. I believe they will flow in the 280 cfm range maybe a little more. You can see some Stage 3 flow numbers on his web site:

http://www.shadydellspeedshop.com/edelbrockheads.htm

Under the "Price List" tab he describes what he does to the heads for each stage. All stages have a "competition valve job" performed on them. He told me that Stage 2 was the best bang for the buck because its just like Stage 3 except everything won't be all polished up and pretty. I am also getting them milled to 62 cc to get 10.3:1 compression with a FelPro 1008 .039" head gasket.

I am going to run a slightly longer duration cam then you and even at that Ryan does not think I should run a bigger carb. And I have asked him more then once about the carb size too. He is the expert so I will be going with what he says. The book "How to Build Big Inch Small Block Mopars" has an engine combo in there making 525 hp and it runs a 750 Holley.

Ryan also thinks the stock Eddie valve springs are good for the cam I am going to use but recommended I upgrade to chrome moly 10 degree retainers and locks for durability reasons.
 
moparmade43 said:
I think the intake flows something like 268 at .550 lift, cant remember the exhaust. I wonder if 1.6 rockers would help compensate for the heads ramcharger?
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Thats a good question moparmade, and a tricky one too.

.550 lift @ the intake valve equals a lobe lift of .366. Multiply .366 by 1.6 and you get a lift at the valve of .585. If your heads stall (do not flow anymore) above .550 lift, your gains will be minimal if anything and limited only to the additional amount in degrees that the valve will be open at .550 or more compared to a 1.5 ratio rocker. This measurement could only be found with a dial indicator, degree wheel and a set of V-blocks and is wholly dependent on the geometry that the particular cam grinder used to make the lobes and may only be a couple of degrees if anything at all.

On the other hand, if your heads flow 10 or 20 cfm more @ .585 lift you could stand to gain some significant power (20 or 30 HP).

High ratio rockers are not a cure all but do have their place. Keep in mind that high ratio rockers will move the pushrods in toward the rocker shaft and the push rod holes may need to be enlarged, also be sure the springs can handle the additional lift without binding and that piston to valve clearance is within an acceptable range.
 
I'd run it like you have it. Sure the heads are probably holding it back but that car is going to be an animal on the street. Getting traction on any type of street tire is going to be a problem.
 
Sounds like a killer combo to me! This is the way that i am wanting to go when it comes time for a motor. I would also say that cal-trac bars and thier mon-leaf springs would be the best way to go. Good luck! :cheers:
 
Yeah fastback, I'm gonna run it like I have it now. It's already tuned and everything from the dyno, so I'll put it in and see how it does. Of course, I'm just thinking ahead to after I'm "acclimated" to the power, because then I'll want more! 8)

DGC333- We did not touch a thing to get the extra power on race gas. We literally just drained the 93 octane out of the resevoir and put cam 2 in instead, and fired it right back up. If I wasnt standing there I wouldn't have believed it. In fact, the dyno operators exact words were "Wow, I've never seen an engine react to race gas like that before"
 
moparmade43 said:
DGC333- We did not touch a thing to get the extra power on race gas. We literally just drained the 93 octane out of the resevoir and put cam 2 in instead, and fired it right back up. If I wasnt standing there I wouldn't have believed it. In fact, the dyno operators exact words were "Wow, I've never seen an engine react to race gas like that before"
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Interesting! I wonder if you may have had to much timing on the 93 that the slower burning race gas liked?
 
Compression is right around 10.5:1, and I don't think there was too much timing, we started out at 33 and kept increasing until we got to 38*, and we picked up a few horse each time.
 
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