E10 E15 fuel EPA

[rtse440]

Received this from our local Mopar club


Subject: Important Alert From the Car Club Council
To:
Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 7:44 AM


Fellow Car Hobbyist,
Below you will see the alert sent from SEMA. I mentioned this a couple of months ago in the car hobbyist news. Producers of ethanol are not making enough money because of low gasoline sales due to the economy. The producers have been trying to get the EPA to raise the amount of ethanol in gasoline so they can make more money. The producers of small engines used in lawn mowers, trimmers, snow mobiles, etc are against the increase in ethanol because of what it will do to these engines. Automakers have not had enough time to determine what the effect will be in their engines. In other words this is a rush to increase ethanol so a few can make some more bucks. Feel free to contact President Obama on this ~ Thanks, Fred. The alert follows:
URGENT REGULATORY ALERT
EPA Threatens to Raise Ethanol Content in Gasoline
Under pressure from ethanol producers to raise the ethanol content in gasoline, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) could issue a decision later this month allowing the use of E15 in late-model cars. It could permit the use in other cars at a later date. The SEMA Action Network (SAN) opposes the shift from E10 to E15 due to concerns that the additional content will harm automobiles of all ages, including special interest collector and historic vehicles. To date, there is a lack of conclusive information regarding E15’s effect on engines of different model years. In addition to the potential harm of E15 on engine components, the EPA has no procedure in place to ensure misfueling does not occur or any plan for ensuring regular gasoline continues to be available for older vehicles. The SAN’s concerns are shared by a number of other industry organizations.
We Urge You to Ask President Obama (Contact Information Below) to Stop the EPA from Raising the Ethanol Content in Gasoline

Dear Mr. President:
I strongly urge you to stop the Environmental Protection Agency from raising the amount of ethanol in gasoline from today’s 10 percent (E10) to 15 percent (E15) – a 50 percent increase.
* The EPA is under pressure from some corporate ethanol supporters to raise the rates in order to boost sales. However, scientific studies have not yet been completed on concerns that the added content could harm auto parts of all ages.
* When ethanol levels are raised, engines react differently and in a potentially dangerous way. Ethanol causes engines to burn hotter which could lead to premature engine and equipment failure. For newer cars, the “check engine” light may appear unnecessarily or too late to avoid costly repairs.
* Ethanol also increases water formation in the fuel system, especially when the vehicle sits over a period of time. Under these conditions, formic acid is created which corrodes metals, plastics and rubber. This can lead to engine/parts failures and, potentially, safety hazards.
* If the EPA approves E15, it will state that the increased ethanol is only for recent model cars. However, once a new fuel mix enters the gasoline supply system, it will inevitably end up in the wrong engines.
* Gasoline without any ethanol may simply disappear from the marketplace for millions of Americans with older cars or special interest collector and historic vehicles. E10 has already made this a reality in many areas of the country.
* The EPA should wait until all of the scientific research is complete. There is no need for a rush to judgment.
DON’T DELAY! Please contact President Obama at http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

 

[ramenth]

* When ethanol levels are raised, engines react differently and in a potentially dangerous way. Ethanol causes engines to burn hotter which could lead to premature engine and equipment failure. For newer cars, the “check engine” light may appear unnecessarily or too late to avoid costly repairs.
* Ethanol also increases water formation in the fuel system, especially when the vehicle sits over a period of time. Under these conditions, formic acid is created which corrodes metals, plastics and rubber. This can lead to engine/parts failures and, potentially, safety hazards.

I've run across this on a few older OBDII non-flex fuel GM's myself already at the 10% level.

 

[greenhornet]

I've not had a car yet that would run on the CRAP.. The reason for low 10% ethanol sales is because people quit buying gas at stations that sell the crap.. Murphys started the 10% mix, I know of personally 15 cars that were effected (3 were mine), now Ingles has started the 10%, people are doing what I do, I switch stations, now I only run exxon... I knew before ingles even put the 10% stickers on their pumps that I had gotten ethonal again, car was running like crap... It's not just certain brands it effects either, 3 injectors when out in my daughters 2009 jeep after 1 tank full of it...

 

[ramenth]

I've not had a car yet that would run on the CRAP.. The reason for low 10% ethanol sales is because people quit buying gas at stations that sell the crap.. Murphys started the 10% mix, I know of personally 15 cars that were effected (3 were mine), now Ingles has started the 10%, people are doing what I do, I switch stations, now I only run exxon... I knew before ingles even put the 10% stickers on their pumps that I had gotten ethonal again, car was running like crap... It's not just certain brands it effects either, 3 injectors when out in my daughters 2009 jeep after 1 tank full of it...

Must be nice to be able to find a station that still has the straight stuff. Here in NY we don't have the choice unless you go to the marina and buy at a $1.00 more a gallon.

 

[greenhornet]

Must be nice to be able to find a station that still has the straight stuff. Here in NY we don't have the choice unless you go to the marina and buy at a $1.00 more a gallon.

Brother I'm down to one exxon station... A few days before ingles stuck the 10% stickers on their pumps, my z-26 started running like crap (again) and when I'd shut the engine off it smelled like old gas, I knew I'd gotten ethanol there, that was the only place I was buying gas...

 

[dgc333]

I have had nothing but E10 for at least 15 years now, don't recall exactly when. There was all kinds of doom and gloom back then that never materialized into anything. I never had an issue with it, cars all run fine and have never run into anyone that has had an issue with it.

As far as old cars are concerned I think its all blown out of proportion. How many 30+ year old cars are running around that have not had an engine/carb/fuel system rebuild? All these vehicles will have the same materials as new cars so the gasket and seal issue is moot.

I realize at some point adding ethanol will have an impact on how non computer controlled cars run but I don't know if that is 15% or not. I have read that the flex fuel cars will loose 2-3 mpg of economy running E85 but I doubt that there are many folks that will ever notice a change of 5% from 10 to 15.

I certainly don't support making a mandatory change just so the manufacturers of Ethanol can make more profit and have already sent off the SEMA suggested letter to the white house.