E58 360?...How to tell?

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65Val

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I've just acquired a '79-360 engine as a core for a project. It came with a spread-bore 4 barrel cast intake manifold and truck oil pan. I was told it could possibly be an "E58" (hi perf) option engine from a "Lil Red Express" truck. How can I confirm or deny this claim without the original vehicle or its data plate?
 
I think they had a windage tray, 340 cam and springs, I think there should be a e58 stamp or something to that effect on the block.
 
in a truck it would be an EH1 instead of a e58. double roller timing chain is a good indication..

it really doesn't matter though. there is nothing real special about those motors if you are rebuilding it anyway.
 
he following additional items were added to the stock 360 in 1978:

Camshaft from the 1968 340 4-bbl.
Red stripe valvesprings with damper from the 1968 340 4-bbl.
Standard valve retainers (replacing rotators)
Large Thermo-Quad from Police 360
Intake manifold from the 1978 Police 360
Windage tray from Police 360
Roller timing chain and sprockets from Police 360
Dual-snorkel air cleaner with fresh air ducts
Chrome valve covers and air cleaner lid
Street-Hemi style mufflers

Some have written that, in 1979, the 360 was detuned, using a standard 360 cam to make assembly easier, and adding catalytic converters. Kelly Looysen wrote that both years used the same cams and confirmed that the 1979 Li’l Red Trucks used catalytic converters, and therefore required unleaded fuel. He also wrote, “Any quarter-mile times I have seen give a slight advantage to the ’79; my guess is that the higher octane fuel made up for the ‘cats.’’ He pointed out that, if a lower-performance cam had been used, the 1979s would likely be slower.


the big debate iw if the 79 had a std 360 cam or the 340 cam.. everyone seems to have an opinion.
 
the following additional items were added to the stock 360 in 1978:

Camshaft from the 1968 340 4-bbl.
Red stripe valvesprings with damper from the 1968 340 4-bbl.
Standard valve retainers (replacing rotators)
Large Thermo-Quad from Police 360
Intake manifold from the 1978 Police 360
Windage tray from Police 360
Roller timing chain and sprockets from Police 360
Dual-snorkel air cleaner with fresh air ducts
Chrome valve covers and air cleaner lid
Street-Hemi style mufflers

Cosmetic modifications included chrome plated air cleaner, valve covers, dual exhaust tailpipes and heat shields, side steps, and rear bumper. The only color was bright red with a gold tape stripe package and gold decals on the doors and tailgate. Body side and tailgate body trim were made of real oak, with chrome-headed bolts; the high end cabin (including convenience package YF1) was done in red or black, and owners could get either bucket (at extra cost) or bench seats; included in the package was an oil pressure gauge, automatic transmission, and rear stabilizer bar. The gross vehicle weight was 6,100 pounds.



Some have written that, in 1979, the 360 was detuned, using a standard 360 cam to make assembly easier, and adding catalytic converters. Kelly Looysen wrote that both years used the same cams and confirmed that the 1979 Li’l Red Trucks used catalytic converters, and therefore required unleaded fuel. He also wrote, “Any quarter-mile times I have seen give a slight advantage to the ’79; my guess is that the higher octane fuel made up for the ‘cats.’’ He pointed out that, if a lower-performance cam had been used, the 1979s would likely be slower.


http://www.allpar.com/trucks/dodge/lil-red-truck.html
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. Upon further inspection, this engine has exhaust rotators, and inner dampers on just the exhaust springs. Can't see any red paint. The stamping on the front of the engine reads "9W360 T1 6629". Not sure if that numbering means anything?
 
Thanks KK...It is a '79 360, according to the casting date, built in Windsor, Ontario, and the "T" means truck...after that it's a mystery. There is also no numbers on the pan rail.
 
in a truck it would be an EH1 instead of a e58. double roller timing chain is a good indication..

it really doesn't matter though. there is nothing real special about those motors if you are rebuilding it anyway.

Thanks, Joe, for the correction on that code number. I don't know much about these particular engines. It does have a double roller chain setup, but I guess that could have been installed by anyone in the last 36 years.

I was just going to rebuild it basically stock, but I thought if it had higher comp pistons, hotter cam, etc., I'd redo it that way.
 
i saw a mid 70s police car 360. the guy that had it said that the water pump had a 5/8 shaft on the water pump. the non police is 1/2.
 
Thanks KK...It is a '79 360, according to the casting date, built in Windsor, Ontario, and the "T" means truck...after that it's a mystery. There is also no numbers on the pan rail.


The numbers on the oil pan rail are from when they torque down the piston/rod assy at the engine factory. They use a "Multiple" spindle machine to run down two pistons at a time, then it stamps the oil pan rail when it gets a good torque. :cheers:
 
The numbers on the oil pan rail are from when they torque down the piston/rod assy at the engine factory. They use a "Multiple" spindle machine to run down two pistons at a time, then it stamps the oil pan rail when it gets a good torque. :cheers:

Karl...I noticed that on these engines...letters on the pan rail (B, C,D, etc) opposite a pair of rod big-ends. The same letter was also stamped on the 2 piston tops connected to these rods/journals.

What I was meaning up there^^^was if there was a VIN stamping or something near the pan rail on the outside of the block, I could maybe tell what vehicle the engine came from.
 
I've just acquired a '79-360 engine as a core for a project. It came with a spread-bore 4 barrel cast intake manifold and truck oil pan. I was told it could possibly be an "E58" (hi perf) option engine from a "Lil Red Express" truck. How can I confirm or deny this claim without the original vehicle or its data plate?

Most everything that's makes it a E58 will be replaced after this many years.
Other words it still just a core.
 
Karl...I noticed that on these engines...letters on the pan rail (B, C,D, etc) opposite a pair of rod big-ends. The same letter was also stamped on the 2 piston tops connected to these rods/journals.

What I was meaning up there^^^was if there was a VIN stamping or something near the pan rail on the outside of the block, I could maybe tell what vehicle the engine came from.


Yes, the VIN is stamped just above the pan rail on the pass side. It has the last 8 digits of the car's VIN...

It will give the assy plant, model year, and the last 6 numbers of the VIN of the car it was in...

Look in the block ID thread that I posted a link to for details...
 
Yes, the VIN is stamped just above the pan rail on the pass side. It has the last 8 digits of the car's VIN...

It will give the assy plant, model year, and the last 6 numbers of the VIN of the car it was in...

Look in the block ID thread that I posted a link to for details...

I checked that out, Karl....there is no VIN stamping anywhere on the block.
 
I checked that out, Karl....there is no VIN stamping anywhere on the block.

Then it may be a service replacement block or it missed the VIN station at the factory...
 
Yes, the VIN is stamped just above the pan rail on the pass side. It has the last 8 digits of the car's VIN...

It will give the assy plant, model year, and the last 6 numbers of the VIN of the car it was in...

Look in the block ID thread that I posted a link to for details...
My understanding is no LREs came with a VIN stamp on the block. It's an oddity for LREs, not really sure why. You can tell that you have a correct LRE motor, but not which it's from.

As far as I know, those motors never had much compression so it's not like unleaded gas hurt them.
 
Then it may be a service replacement block or it missed the VIN station at the factory...

Could be, Karl. Well it's apart now getting ready for the machine shop. There was no windage tray in the pan, so I'm taking the route that it is not an EH1 (E58 ) engine.

I have 2-360's sitting in the garage, 1-'75 block and 1-'79 block. One thing I have noticed is the '75 block has small port heads on it whereas the '79 block has large port heads. Interesting.
 
Could be, Karl. Well it's apart now getting ready for the machine shop. There was no windage tray in the pan, so I'm taking the route that it is not an EH1 (E58 ) engine.

I have 2-360's sitting in the garage, 1-'75 block and 1-'79 block. One thing I have noticed is the '75 block has small port heads on it whereas the '79 block has large port heads. Interesting.

Could someone have put the small port heads on the 75 engine???

The 75 heads should have the bump for the egr holes, but no holes...

The 79 heads should have the bump for the egr holes and drilled to the exhaust port... Then tap them for 1/4" - 20 set screws and plug them up....
 
Could be, Karl. Well it's apart now getting ready for the machine shop. There was no windage tray in the pan, so I'm taking the route that it is not an EH1 (E58 ) engine.

I have 2-360's sitting in the garage, 1-'75 block and 1-'79 block. One thing I have noticed is the '75 block has small port heads on it whereas the '79 block has large port heads. Interesting.
If you mean 318 port heads, someone put them on there. I believe '75 was a transition where it could have the 587s or one of the two smog heads. (technically 587s are- but I've never seen a set that didn't have its AIR holes filled with weld- I think the factory did that on Federal emission motors)

I've mostly played with early 360s but also seen mid year/late smog ones and I can tell you that's not right. All unleaded heads are prone to cracking so it's not at all uncommon to see all sorts of heads swapped onto smog motors.

It sounds like it may well be an LRE motor. If it's not, then I think that'd mean it's a warranty block. Windage trays are rare, anyone robbing them's not unusual even if the rest of the motor's intact. As far as it goes- I don't see anything there that would make that motor incorrect for an LRE- that'd be a Windsor built '79 360 that doesn't have a VIN.
 
Accoprding to my charts:

73-74 had the 36710587 heads

75-76 had the 3769974 heads

77-80 used the 4027596 or 4071051 heads..
 
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