Early 64/65 A833 to later gear conversion?

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tomswheels

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I have a 1965 A833 with the 3.09 first gear, I want to convert it to the lower numerically 1st gear of the 66+ cars. Is this possible? Will I have to gut the entire case and start over with every gear set and input shaft from a donor trans? Oh and I want to convert it to non-ball/trunnions as well. Thanks in advance I'm new to these fancy 4 spd thingies...
 
Yes, it is possible, but you need the entire gear set including the cluster gear. If you want the slip yoke, now you are talking mainshaft and tail housing. If you go with the small 66 67 A body mainshaft and tail housing, they are not too expensive. Sometimes you can find a C or B body trans cheap for the donor gears. I'm not sure you will be able to see much of a difference for your time and money.
 
So no way to modify my tail shaft housing to slip yoke? Does anyone want to trade any 66+ later non-OD trans (A,B, E, C body whatever) for my ball/trunion A?
 
I love that 3.09L gearset. I put it in a B-body Box, Formula S clone.
Pardon my curiosity, but what is/are your reasons for giving it up?

For the Autocross racing I'm doing, I need a first gear that can pull 40-50 MpH...
 
Ok, I get that.
Is there a reason, for not swapping rears instead?
-I took the liberty of doing some math, and found that 3.55s gets you about 48mph at 6500rpm.The overall starter ratio of 3.09X3.55 =10.97. If you were to use the 2.66 ratio, then 10.97/2.66=4.12s
The difference in the lows is about 16%. This equates to a change from 3.55s to 4.12 which rounds to 4.10s. Of course a substitution to 3.91s. would knock off about 300rpm or give you a few more mph.I would hazzard a guess that you have already done all this math, so Im thinking theres more to the story than just the low gear thing?
A simple change from 3.55s to 3.23s, would get you 48 mph at about 6000rpm, with the 3.09 low.
 
Ok, I get that.
Is there a reason, for not swapping rears instead?
-I took the liberty of doing some math, and found that 3.55s gets you about 48mph at 6500rpm.The overall starter ratio of 3.09X3.55 =10.97. If you were to use the 2.66 ratio, then 10.97/2.66=4.12s
The difference in the lows is about 16%. This equates to a change from 3.55s to 4.12 which rounds to 4.10s. Of course a substitution to 3.91s. would knock off about 300rpm or give you a few more mph.I would hazzard a guess that you have already done all this math, so Im thinking theres more to the story than just the low gear thing?
A simple change from 3.55s to 3.23s, would get you 48 mph at about 6000rpm, with the 3.09 low.

I guess as big an issue is my 360 doesn't like to rev much past 5300, even with the 308 rear I have now. Now I am currently running the A833 OD, which makes the gap between 1st,2nd, and third all the wider. Ideally I could get the 2.66 1st and run a "comfortable" 40-50 with my low rev-mobile...
 
What seems to be the issue with the engine?
Yes the o/d box has a pretty wide 1-2 split. 54%. It sure wont help you on the track.
But IMHO you need to look into the engine issue. Is she a 2bbl motor?With a 2bbl cam kit?
 
Just one of the old 300HP Crate Magnums. You can rev it past 5300, but the power drops off quickly. I believe the cam is designed more for low end torque...
 
Ok, I understand.
Have you considered camming it up? It might be the cheapest solution, possibly the best, depending on the track(s).I also undestand the tranny swap idea, very well. In 1970, Chrysler came out with the T/A gearset. The ratios were 2.47-1.77-1.34-1.00 IIRC . The splits are about 78%. pretty tight.That might be pretty good, esp. with a corresponding rear end swap. Might be murder, commuting though.
 
Why do you want to go to the slip yoke when the ball and trunion transmission is arguably stronger?
 
Already have the drive shaft shortened and a slip yoke on it now with the OD... I hear you about the CAM, and the road race gears would be great, I may end up just having to buy a Passon one done up like that. Money is tight though and was hoping to find a way to use / modify what I already had...
 
--I dont know much about your type of racing, but this one thing I do know;Theres no sense in spending money on things not applicable to getting the job done.Ask yourself: How many gears do you need for the racing? Are you driving to/from the track? how many miles/time, and at what speed?ie; do you need a road gear? Do you bomb it around on non-race days? ie do you need city gears?The answers to these questions will, to a large extent determine, the number of gears you actually need, and their ratios. For instance if the car is dedicated to the track, you only need 2 or 1 gear.If you are driving to the track, you will need an additional gear.And if bombing around, you will need a filler to get from 4th to 2nd.Im pretty sure youve gone through this process, to come up with the tranny, as your solution.
--Heres where Im going; You can fit the geartrain to the engine, or you can fit the engine to the geartrain.
--The price of a specialty tranny, can buy a lot of power. But if its a wide powerband you need, you may not be able to move too far from your current combo.
--If your one and only problem is running out of power/revs in exactly one gear, it would be really hard to justify a tranny swap. At least for me it would be.

--If the machine was a dedicated track only car, would it work to re-gear the back to run the race in 2nd? Heres the formula; (TC x RPM)/(1056 x R1 x R2) = mph
Where; TC= tire circumference, RPM = engine revs, R1 = diff ratio, and R2 = trans ratio

The math;............ (84 x 5400)/(1056 x 3.09 x 2.94) = 47 mph Is this close?

Then to use 2nd; ...(84 x 5400)/(1056 x 1.67 x 5.13) = 50 mph

or.........................(84 x 5200)/(1056 x 1.67 x 4.89) = 51 mph

This rear end swap gets you 2 gears for the race, well you would probably only use 1st off the line,And then the O/D, will drop the 4.89s to 3.55 equivalent for the highway.

--Alternatively, you could pop in a cam kit, 1 or2 or maybe 3 sizes bigger. this would tighten up the powerband and extend the operating rpm. This would allow you to keep all the geartrain that you already have. Bigger cams tend to trade hp up top for tq down low. If you need that tq , a cam swap might not be the answer.I say might because the 360 has plenty of tq down low already, and you are probably never there very long anyway. An extra 20 hp up top, and a few hundred more rpm, might be the ticket.
--Anyway, talk is cheap, so, all the best to you what ever you decide.
 
I appreciate that advice, I'm going to try and re-think this before any purchase.
 
Nothing wrong with the B/T "Detroit" driveshafts. Still serviceable, and Hemi bulletproof.
 
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