early A-body Power steering

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wheelsport

wheelsport

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When I bought my '65 Barracuda, the steering had considerable free play. The steering linkage was fine so I figured the slop was in the steering geer. I adjusted the play so it only had about a inch or so free play. However, with the engine running the free play increased over a quarter turn. Since the original geer had substantial leaks, I replaced it. The new steering geer acts the same as the original only without leaks. This feels a little unsafe. Is this normal early A-Body steering?
 
wheelsport said:
When I bought my '65 Barracuda, the steering had considerable free play. The steering linkage was fine so I figured the slop was in the steering geer. I adjusted the play so it only had about a inch or so free play. However, with the engine running the free play increased over a quarter turn. Since the original geer had substantial leaks, I replaced it. The new steering geer acts the same as the original only without leaks. This feels a little unsafe. Is this normal early A-Body steering?
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Have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you look at the lower column, coupler, and linkage.
 
Tie rod ends, control arm,
 
My 66 was like that. Took out the power steering box and replaced it with a Flaming River manual box, steering is nice and tight now.
 
While driving straight, with the wheel centered, it takes more than an eighth of a turn either way to start to change direction. I wouldn't think this normal.
 
wheelsport said:
I figured the slop was in the steering geer. I adjusted the play so it only had about a inch or so free play. However, with the engine running the free play increased over a quarter turn.
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Did you do both adjustments, and in the correct order? Described here.

wheelsport said:
Since the original geer had substantial leaks, I replaced it.
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Parts store/generic "remanufactured" junk, or a good box from the likes of Redhead (in Auburn, WA), or from Firm Feel or Steer & Gear? The latter two vendors make a speciality of increasing the road feel and self-centring action by installing stiffer reaction springs in the gearbox, which Redhead can likely also do.

Also that's good advice to carefully check for slop in your steering shaft to steering box coupler. Borgeson joints are fine, but so are un-worn-out, correctly-assembled factory-type couplers. Putting the shoes in rotated 90° from their correct position will cause steering slop.

And you'll want to make sure there's no lost or improper motion in the steering linkage under the car. If the idler arm (for example) wants to move up and down because it's worn or it's loose or its mount is wallowed out, that'll cause slop, too.
 
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Thanks slantsix, I didn't know that the input shaft had an adjustment and no one mentioned it. I've done everything else. I'll give it a try.
 
If that doesn't work, you may send your original gearbox (if you still have it) to Steer and Gear or Firm Feel. I had Steer and Gear rebuild my original 66 gearbox and pump. I got the "sport" feel. It's much closer to a modern feel.
 
The geer I have isn't the exact replacement for my car or the one I thought I ordered. It doesn't have the removable valve body that controls the power centering. This was covered in another thread. Also, there is no adjustment, for end play the input shaft.
 
slantsixdan said:
Did you do both adjustments, and in the correct order? Described here.
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Dan, if you're out there, I have a question for you.

In this thread, which is about play in a power steering gear, you link to a thread regarding a recommended adjustment in a manual steering car.

Looking at the exploded views in the '64 Parts Manual, the manual box (page 19-1 / page 437 of the pdf file) shows Part 19-15-58, "Adjuster," as well as Part #19-15-59, "Nut," and the Adjuster clearly appears to be threaded, but the power box (page 19-13 / 449 of the pdf) only shows a Nut, 19-14-19, and no Adjuster, but rather a Head, 19-02-55, which does not appear to be a threaded adjuster.

Also the Service Manual does not appear to provide an equivalent instruction to your "sector mesh preload" adjustment in its instructions regarding power steering boxes.

Also, I can't for the life of me see anything that I would adjust on my own power steering box were I to loosen the Nut.

Is it possible that your input shaft preload adjustment recommendation applies only to manual steering boxes?

And if so, is there a separate recommended adjustment for the power steering boxes, or just "tighten the big screw until you can feel it, then back off a little," like on Saginaw boxes?

Thanks!

- Eric
 
Take my advice and scrap the power steering or send your gear to one of the company's slant six dan recommends. I went through this horror for almost a year and finally installed a manual box. The car is harder to steer, at slow speed, but I can at least drive it.
 
MDchanic said:
Is it possible that your input shaft preload adjustment recommendation applies only to manual steering boxes?
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Yes, that is the case.

MDchanic said:
just "tighten the big screw until you can feel it, then back off a little,"?
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(1) Disconnect center link from steering gear arm.
(2) Start engine and run at idle speed.
(3) Turn steering wheel gently from one stop to the
other, counting number of turns. Then turn wheel back
exactly halfway, to center position.
(4) Loosen adjusting screw until backlash is evident in
steering gear arm. Feel backlash by holding end of
steering gear arm between thumb and forefinger with a light grip. Tighten adjusting screw until backlash just
disappears. Tighten to 3/8 to 1/2 turn from this position and tighten lock nut to 50 foot-pounds to maintain this setting.

Just like it says in the FSM.
 
slantsixdan said:
Yes, that is the case.
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Thought I was missing something, but then I said, "Wait a minute. Maybe It's not me!"

Now I can question my sanity and acuity for other reasons.


slantsixdan said:
(1) Disconnect center link from steering gear arm.
(2) Start engine and run at idle speed.
(3) Turn steering wheel gently from one stop to the
other, counting number of turns. Then turn wheel back
exactly halfway, to center position.
(4) Loosen adjusting screw until backlash is evident in
steering gear arm. Feel backlash by holding end of
steering gear arm between thumb and forefinger with a light grip. Tighten adjusting screw until backlash just
disappears. Tighten to 3/8 to 1/2 turn from this position and tighten lock nut to 50 foot-pounds to maintain this setting.

Just like it says in the FSM.
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... Where the FSM is describing bench reassembly, rather than adjustment on the car, so one must reimagine the operation, as you have above.

1964 Dodge Technical Service Manual, page 19-35 (p 491 of the pdf), Operation 10, part 9:
(9) With hydraulic power to the unit and with the gear shaft on center, readjust the gear shaft backlash. This will require loosening the adjusting screw until backlash is evident. Then retighten the adjusting screw until backlash just disappears. Continue to tighten for 3/8 to 1/2 turn from this position and tighten the lock nut to 50 foot-pounds to maintain this setting.
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Whining but practical question:
Must one really disconnect the Pitman are from the centerlink, as one should be able to feel whether there is any backlash regardless of whether it's connected?
In fact, with the extra drag of the linkage (with wheels off the ground), might it not be easier to feel when the Pitman arm begins to take up?

Thanks for materializing to clarify this, Dan!

– Eric
 
slantsixdan said:
Depends how good a job you want to do.
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[Sorry for the late response, Dan – I've been a bit busy.]

I just wrote an erudite but combative riposte to you, Dan, and then I read over the manual's instructions, and yours, and realized that I had understood them both wrong.

[Sort of a "Step One: Engage Brain, Step Two: Press Send Button" thing.]

I was understanding that one was to feel for play in the take-up of the Pittman arm while rotating the input shaft back and forth.
I see now that the method is to keep the input shaft still and centered, and just bat the end of the Pittman arm back and forth between your fingers.
So, one's fingers are not simply feeling for movement, they are actively moving the arm.
So, yes, one would have to disconnect the centerlink, unless one had the fingers of a gorilla, as it is not the mechanism of the steering box moving, but only the arm moving.

I shall disconnect the centerlink and adjust this when I get a chance.

Thanks!

– Eric
 
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