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mopar head

mopar head

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Pro or novice, I need help.
I want to build my 440 based around the trick flow heads.
I`m not a builder and sourced a local machinist to build a short block for me.
I can manage the rest. I made a plea for help on the thread here.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=328349&page=7
To no avail. I`m just looking to up the performance on a 72 block with the piston .150 below deck. I was counting on the machinist to calculate the rest. I told him I`d like to up the ratio to 10.5:1, or to run on 93 in our area. He`s wanting me to settle for 9:1, That`s fine if that is a more reasonable expectation to run without detonation. I just want this engine to be all it can be on a reasonable budget, mid range parts price/quality. No high $, no junk.
Engine will be going in an old coupe, weighing, guessing at 3500 lbs. 4spd, 3:55 gears.
It`s just going to be a street cruiser, I want to run hydraulic cam. I`m open to suggestion on what to choose for my goals.
The machinist admitted he`s not real familiar with mopar, "like that makes any difference",
although their was a 440 being built and assembled in front of mine.
Here`s the kicker.... Besides being jerked around schedule wise, since 10/16, dropped off, 11/16, finally at the point of ordering pistons/parts to wrap this saga up, with numerous visits to check on progress, allready bored .020 over to clean it up. he calls to inform me he`s having trouble finding pistons to get me at my comp. goals.
I assumed you measured before teardown, he`s working off books specs.
He mentions that he`s finding some that would work with .030 over. I told him I did`nt want to pay for 2 bore jobs and he would not charge to go the .030 over. I told him of just what I`ve read on compression calculators that it seems he could of figured this stuff out before boring. He told me maybe I should order the parts, that it sound like I know more about this stuff than he. I remained calm, and said I`m not trying to be a smartass, and just assumed this stuff could be figured before any bore work was performed.
I`d like to work with this guy, he seems like a decent guy, he`s not demanded any money yet, even though I`ve offered. We are at that point though with parts purchases and labor.
I`m getting worried now on how this is going to end.
Should I relax and give the man the benefit of the doubt?
Or just go settle up and get my short block?
I`m thinking of maybe investing in the tools to assemble myself, if you guys could take me under you wing?
But would prefer to just go pick up a professionally assembled
shortblock.


thanks for reading and for any suggestions :pale:
 
IQ52 said:
Step back, take a breath, relax and find a machinist that knows what they are doing. This engine won't be built in a day. Its hard to get a good, complete engine, designed for free isn't it?

Thanks for chiming in sir, So--- do you agree with my fear that this guy is not what he should be as a machinist?
He`s Had my engine for 3 months, I`m in no huge rush, but I feel he`s had it long enough.
I have read allot on your and others builds, thanks for the links.
I fully expect to be charged for design research, I know time is money even if it`s setting on the butt.
I did not expect that a compression increase would be an issue on a build, and running the numbers on a calculator was second nature and normal expected knowledge for a automotive machinist.
Click to expand...
 
The 470 engine that I just finished building required several hours of research to pick the correct piston. There are always a lot of decisions that need to be thought thru before picking the piston. Cost, ring package, compression ratio, bore size, pin size, connecting rod length, stroke, cylinder head, etc.

There are not going to be a lot of 0.020 over piston choices, ICON might have a few but that might be it. Performance pistons are typically going to be in the 0.030 size.
 
I spent about 15 minutes looking around the web and hit on the KB237 piston. It is a flat top 440 piston available in 020 overbore and should be around 10.5 compression with the Trick Flow heads.
 
I kindof agree with you, that this guy might be in over his head.I mean who bores a block without pistons in hand? On the other hand if you asked/told him to bore it .020, well then, the shoe's kindof on the other foot.
I know almost nothing about 440s, but if I was to build one, I sure wouldn't "settle for 9.0"
For your stated goal; " It`s just going to be a street cruiser, I want to run hydraulic cam. I`m open to suggestion on what to choose for my goals", I would be moving up for sure.
Just be sure to engineer the whole pkg; Static cr, Dynamic cr, and quench(more properly; squish)
 
There's a difference between a shop that basically remanufactured engines build to stock specs and custom builds. To me it sounds like you should go to a different shop. Someone experienced building race engines should have no problem with yours and if you gonna run a cam big enough to advantage of the trick flow heads probably can run 10.5:1.
 
AndyF said:
I spent about 15 minutes looking around the web and hit on the KB237 piston. It is a flat top 440 piston available in 020 overbore and should be around 10.5 compression with the Trick Flow heads.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much Andy, the kind of help I need..

AJ/FormS said:
I kindof agree with you, that this guy might be in over his head.I mean who bores a block without pistons in hand? On the other hand if you asked/told him to bore it .020, well then, the shoe's kindof on the other foot.
I know almost nothing about 440s, but if I was to build one, I sure wouldn't "settle for 9.0"
For your stated goal; " It`s just going to be a street cruiser, I want to run hydraulic cam. I`m open to suggestion on what to choose for my goals", I would be moving up for sure.
Just be sure to engineer the whole pkg; Static cr, Dynamic cr, and quench(more properly; squish)
Click to expand...
I did not tell him to bore any size, just stated my preferred goal. It may have been discussed that if it only needed that then do that but it would seem that he would of researched if pistons were available, before any bore work was performed.

Steven190 said:
Look into MRL, ad here, Mike knows his craft
Click to expand...
I`m sure he does and always check his builds out.

273 said:
There's a difference between a shop that basically remanufactured engines build to stock specs and custom builds. To me it sounds like you should go to a different shop. Someone experienced building race engines should have no problem with yours and if you gonna run a cam big enough to advantage of the trick flow heads probably can run 10.5:1.
Click to expand...
I told him of these things, Iv`e read from this site where that compression could be run, and he still believes I should go lower.

krazykuda said:
Get a beter machinist...

x2 on calling Mike at MRL... He's one of the few guys that I'd trust to build an engine.


I prefer to do it myself so I know it's done right...


If you want to know how to check your compression yourself, look at this thread:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=278215
Click to expand...
Thanks, I went through the whole thread last night, and was explaining a little of the process, when he told me maybe I should buy the parts etc. comment. Good write up btw.




Thanks fellas, anybody want to suggest a decent rod and cam spec. for this build?
 
This reminds me of a lot of the experiences I've had with engine builders, especially the suggestion to go with low compression. I'd pick up the parts, pay the bill and go elsewhere.
 
mopar head said:
Thanks, I went through the whole thread last night, and was explaining a little of the process, when he told me maybe I should buy the parts etc. comment. Good write up btw.

Thanks fellas, anybody want to suggest a decent rod and cam spec. for this build?
Click to expand...


If you decide to go at it yourself, we can give you advice as you need it...
 
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