Engine Combo Questions

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tt16v

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Ok be easy on me I have a lot questions that might seem stupid but I am just ignorant. Now that the disclaimer is out of the way Here are the questions.

I would like to build a engine combo that put down about 300-350 at the rear wheels and make a "torque line" I want to talk the old man into giving me the 73 scamp on the cheap as a platform to have some fun at the track getting sideways in but still get out of its own way down the straights and maybe some drags. I am looking at some engine options, thinking 360ci but should I start with a magnum or an older 360? as i under stand it the magnums have quench type heads, hyd. Roller tappets, 1.6 ration rockers etc. and are pretty good in general but intake manifold selection is limited to 2-3 choices.
Pump gas is a must as i can then cruise it and keep the misses happy so that would limit me to about 9.5:1 maybe 10:1 with a big cam but, too big = no torque on the bottom-mid etc. So that being said

Options on heads
Which head is going to flow best in ported form?
Crane came gold rocker arms worth the $$?

Cam Options
What profile?

Bottom end
Stock crank and rods ok for these power levels?

Any help would be appreciated so I can get a game plan going on the power plant
 
Hi!

We're going to need more info, but we'll tell you what our average street/strip customers do who are generally on a budget.

The early 360 is the way to go, .030 over, with Keith Black Pistons (part #KB107), reconditioned stock rods, and stock cast crank (usually cut .010/.010). Quality oil pump, stock pan. Comp .509 Cam, home ported X or J heads (1.88I or 2.02I depending on torque curve wanted). 750 Holley, on a torker intake or equivalent, stock electronic ignition, headers and decent exhaust system.

This is a common combination for either automatic or 4-speed applications. The common rear set-up is 3.91 gears and an L60 tire or equivalent.

3,200lb car should go mid to high 12's at 107 (1/4 mile), run at 170 degrees all day long, drive anywhere on pump gas. Maximum RPM's on an engine like this is 5,500 which translates to low maintenance and usually results in no broken parts.

Due to everyone's budget being different, you can obvisouly go up or down from this.

Hope this info. helps. If you have questions or we can help in anyway, please feel free to contact us! :thumbup:

Bob & Cici
Outrageously Vintage, Inc.
207-342-2704
 
4 Things in order of importance.
1. Budget?
2. What type of usage 90% of the time?
3. What parts do you currently have?
4. What can you do yourself?
 
OV is dead on, IMHO of course.

That is for the most part my exact setup. I had the engine already. The compleate engive rebuild kit caso be about $600. With the KB pistons.

The machine work *.030 over, .010 crank and rob, Zero decked* $500

now, if I can only keep it at 170 degrees ;)
 
moper said:
4 Things in order of importance.
1. Budget?
2. What type of usage 90% of the time?
3. What parts do you currently have?
4. What can you do yourself?
Click to expand...

1. what ever it takes to make a decent motor not outrageous but I am not going to skimp on little things to stick to a set budget

2. I would like to use it as a track car for some fun not a daily driver something that corners well, and drags ok too

3. nothing until I get a game plan I am in the information gathering phase

4. All but the major machine work (line boring, boring the cylinders etc.)
I have access to a flow bench, mill, lathe, have assembled engines before ported heads etc. I have a good hi performance background just don't know of proven combinations for mopar small blocks

Outrageously Vintage Tanks for replying also sorry there was no reply from me for a while just been busy and away from the computer I also see that you are from Maine Nice country up there I have been to Rumford a couple times for the Maine Forrest Pro Rally
 
i would get a LA 360, .30 over KB pistons have the block decked, a set of iron 360 heads ported a bit and with a good bowl cleaning, a MP 284/484 cam, a RPM airgap, i think that would be a decent str./strip combo :cheers:
 
If I were setting up a car for multi use, but mostly for fun, I'd go something like these: 360, with a solid HP rebuild. KB hypereutectic flat tops at 0 deck. Stock rods w/ARP bolts, stock crank ground and polished, assembly internally balanced. Block squared, bored plate honed, mains studded, and line honed. Milodon windage tray and street pan. For heads, I'd go Edelbrocks. They are around $500 more initially, but have much more potential, resist detonation better, and have a chamber that with the right quench, will make better power. Plus, for all you SCCA types, they are lighter by a bit, and are the right spot to remove weight (high and forward). I'd run a .039 gasket, and set compression around a true 10.8:1 by milling the heads if needed. Heads should be checked and corrected in the valve job before installing. I'd also run a Comp, XE274H, and an RPM air Gap, carb of your choice. A Demon or Avenger Holley would be top of my list. MP ignition is fine, and 1 5/8 headers.

As a second option, much more power on tap, replace the crank/rods/pistons with the MP cast 4" unit, a nice set of Ross forged, and some Scats or similar rod. Port the heads slightly (bowl blending, gasket matching), add roller rockers, and run the Comp XS282S solid cam. I'd also be running a carb in the 800 cfm (wet flowed) area. The rest can stay the same. The first engine should make a solid 4-425 horse, the second option will make closer to 500horse, more importantly, 500tq.

Budget wise, they will run (360cid)$6700 ready to run, or (408cid)$8200. By ready to run, thats every nut, bolt, wires, plugs, new carb, headers, everything. So dont jump on the prices, they are realistic and include what most places omit.

The 408 is unreal. If you've driven nice big blocks, you can appreciate this package. It weights much (guessing 300lbs) less than a 440, but pulls harder, even off idle. Both these will run well on pump unleaded. High test, but 92-93 octane. Pull a 3.23 gear, with some big wheels and good tire, a street convertor, and it will run corners like mad, and still run well in the 12s.
 
That’s some good info! the 4" Stroke would make a nice square motor. I would really like to go Alu. head for weight and for a modern combustion chamber plus its much easier to port or clean up for me (used to working with it). Which brings up another question about porting how rough should the ports be for use with a carb I have heard in theory that a carb'd engine want a rougher port? But I don’t have any empirical evidence to back this up.

OOPS Sorry I Forgot I was Not logged in and I am on my dads computer and he was logged in
 
THere are various opinions..For me, I dont polish intakes, I finish with a medium grit stone and flapper, that's it. I perefer to have serious velocity to keep the fuel in suspension. I do think a larger cross section port on a smaller displacement would benefit from a rougher surface, due to low speed issues, but once the engine/port combo is in it's rpm range, I dont think it really matters. I do like to polish the exh side a bit to keep things cleaners longer, and less surface area (smoother) means more heat retained in the gases, instead of dissipating into the head. The advantages should be there, but IMO, there is such a small difference that shape is MUCH more crutial than finish.
 
do not go to j-heads or x. they are old and over priced. You can go to mopar commando heads (big port) or to stock magnum heads or magnum r/t heads.

car craft got 400hp from a 318 using the stock magnum heads no porting of any sort, imagine alittle porting and putting them on a 360?

any ways go to the junk yard and pull off some good heads, intake, all valve gear, head bolts, pushrods (if you can find a 360 block that used a roller cam, also the lifters) tb, flywheel, pcm, and harness. do some mild porting and blot everything on to the 360 with the formentioned pistons.

you will have more horsepower than the other heads plus way more perfomrance and cheaper! plus have efi! you can get everything at the yard for under $200. and j-x heads are over $500 atleast!

you could even get a 318 and get your goal hp range. a 318 is a 340 with 20 less cu.

if you want big cubes you can with a 4in crank with stock rods or scat h-beams for $300 plus diamond pistons $500 (forged!) and use the mentioned parts and make more power than the 360. and if you wanted to you could at a supercharger form the superchargerstore.com and make 650hp atleast on pump gas!!and no loss of gas miliage! Of course you will have start upgrading other things. Chassis wise.

so in closing the magnum heads are the best choice as you can use chevy crane rockers which are way cheap.

if you want to stay carbed. mopar makes a magnum heads that uses a la intake.

good luck

steve
 
Go find a 383/440 in a local wrecking yard and find yourself a 727 to match. Right out of the box these put out nearly 335 HP in bone stock form. Swap out the cam and put on a decent induction and it only gets better.

tt16v said:
Ok be easy on me I have a lot questions that might seem stupid but I am just ignorant. Now that the disclaimer is out of the way Here are the questions.

I would like to build a engine combo that put down about 300-350 at the rear wheels and make a "torque line" I want to talk the old man into giving me the 73 scamp on the cheap as a platform to have some fun at the track getting sideways in but still get out of its own way down the straights and maybe some drags. I am looking at some engine options, thinking 360ci but should I start with a magnum or an older 360? as i under stand it the magnums have quench type heads, hyd. Roller tappets, 1.6 ration rockers etc. and are pretty good in general but intake manifold selection is limited to 2-3 choices.
Pump gas is a must as i can then cruise it and keep the misses happy so that would limit me to about 9.5:1 maybe 10:1 with a big cam but, too big = no torque on the bottom-mid etc. So that being said

Options on heads
Which head is going to flow best in ported form?
Crane came gold rocker arms worth the $$?

Cam Options
What profile?

Bottom end
Stock crank and rods ok for these power levels?

Any help would be appreciated so I can get a game plan going on the power plant
Click to expand...
 
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