engine noise

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Did you by some chance get the wrong header gasket? I think 318 and 360 ones make a difference.

I also have a non mopar, honestly its a total bastard car its not faithful to any makes. Anyway it was a custom motor swap so we modded some headers to make it work in the new chassis. I looked for hours for pin holes but I think there is one left. It makes almost a sound like there is a bad idler pulley bearing. I guess because it is a small hole is whistles slightly. Anyway there is a small chance that is your issue.


I mean how does this thing run? does it feel like it has all its power?
 
I totaly agree with Rustys extension=better than stethoscope.
Well now you have ruled out wristpins.
As to a cracked flex plate; in 45 years I only ever came across one.And I dont recall diagnosing it.However Im of the opinion that the sound would not be as difficult to locate as your sound is.
I know your antsy to get the intake off, but I wonder if......
Wait,I just thought of something; there is one last tin item inside the motor.Namely the oil flinger at the front of the crankshaft.And its in the chaincase. Which connects the top and bottom of the engine.I think I would check the torque on that ballancer bolt,first.Or at least sound out that case.And maybe the W/P as well.And while youre there maybe check the fan mounting bolts (JFTHOI); that theyre not too long and grinding on the waterpump nose.

Wait, forget that flinger business.I just reviewed the videos. I have heard this noise before. Give me a minute. Ill see if my brain can pull it in.Dont pull the intake just yet. Im sure the noise is in the oilpan.
No 6 rod bearing!Its not burned up.Its the wrong size shell.Or maybe #4. In any case Thats where Id be going.

Fellas; Anybody want to second that opinion.
 
A rod baring would knock, unless your hearing something i'm not,... it a much higher tone to me.
 
Also, removing the accessory drive belts is as easy as a few seconds. I would do that first before I tore into anything. Sounds can transmit like a big dog. If it's something the belts are turning, how easy would that be to fix?
 
Cudafever
I agree that,when theyre banged out and pounding steel to steel its a very obvious sound. But when theres only excessive oil clearance, and all the babbet is still on there, the knock might be heavily muted.And the hollow tone to the sound IMO points very strongly to the oilpan as a source.And theres only one thing in the pan that could make that tone, and continue for this amount of time.
Sure Im speculating.But the first couple of times I threw a rod bearing, this is how it presented at first. And I ignored it through ignorance. Next time out,It was obvious.
And besides it only takes a couple of hours to RnR the pan and look/check/replace the bearings. The peace of mind alone would be worth it to me.

Anyone else?
 
Again thanks for the replies,

I've been using a stethoscope, long extension, wooden dowel and a piece of hose to help locate the noise. They all make the noise sound a little different but I can't pin point exactly where it's coming from.

Did you by some chance get the wrong header gasket? I think 318 and 360 ones make a difference.
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I'm pretty sure they are the correct ones.

I heard a noise like that once, on a Pontiac 400. Turned out the builder had put Mallory metal in the crank to balance the counterweights. Metal protruded and was hitting the distributor shaft. If you run out of ideas, shouldn't take too long to pop the dizzy and oil pump drive gear.
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I'll double check the oil pump drive gear. I don't think my engine builder balanced the crank.

Also, removing the accessory drive belts is as easy as a few seconds. I would do that first before I tore into anything. Sounds can transmit like a big dog. If it's something the belts are turning, how easy would that be to fix?
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I've already taken off the intake, when I get it back together and if there's still a noise I will remove the belts to eliminate that possibility.

I took the intake off this morning. The spider and the dog bones are there and they don't feel loose.

How do I check if the lifter holes are oriented correctly?

What else should I be checking while I have the intake off?
 
When each lifter is on its base aka not on the lobe, you need to compare distance between the snap ring and the plunger, (the push rod is pushing on). there should be about .040 between the snap ring and the plunger. more importance is that the distance should be all the same distance when the cam is not on the lobe.

IF the plunger in the lifter is all the way up to the snap ring this could cause your noise. if you can easy compress the lifter or the plunger in the lifter with finger pressure, the lifter need to be replaced.

If its at the snap ring look at cam lobe for damage. if the plunger is all the way down into the lifter body, you need a smaller push rod.
 
To check lifter oil hole orientation remove the spider bracket and dog bones and remove each lifter one at a time and make sure the oil hole in the side is toward the center of the engine. If it's not, put it there.
 
Seems like a very noisy engine overall. Worse than roller rockers?Almost like a rattling? Have only heard noise once like that before, and was hard to pinpoint because it seemed to emimate from everywhere, and it wasn't the valvetrain although it sounded like it.
 
I had a noise like that or very similar to that sound on mine when i fitted a B&M flex plate,and it was rubbing or touching a section of the mini starter.It had me baffled as the sound traveled right up into the lifter section.I did what Rusty suggested ran a socket extension around the engine while on stands and traced it all the way back to the starter,found where it was touching than ran a dremel with a cutting tip.Fixed my problem.Just to put it out there dont the mag engines run some type of Valley baffle or plate for the lifters ? could it be possible that a lifter could be hitting it when its coming up on its lobe?? just thinking out loud..
 
AJ/FormS said:
Cudafever
I agree that,when theyre banged out and pounding steel to steel its a very obvious sound. But when theres only excessive oil clearance, and all the babbet is still on there, the knock might be heavily muted.And the hollow tone to the sound IMO points very strongly to the oilpan as a source.And theres only one thing in the pan that could make that tone, and continue for this amount of time.
Sure Im speculating.But the first couple of times I threw a rod bearing, this is how it presented at first. And I ignored it through ignorance. Next time out,It was obvious.
And besides it only takes a couple of hours to RnR the pan and look/check/replace the bearings. The peace of mind alone would be worth it to me.

Anyone else?
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This x100 wrong bearings supplied with a crank kit or otherwise sound way different than a failed bearing. Sounds like multiple failed lifters. It will start,run ,and shutdown, without issue except for all the extra noise until the bearing pounds out. Been there. Didn't read through the whole thread the fist time to see AJ's post.
 
Thanks again for the replies.

I had the intake off on Sunday. I was hoping to find something easy and obvious. The spider and all the dog bones were there. All the lifter oiling holes were facing towards the cam shaft. I didn't see anything obvious.

I put it back together and it doesn't sound better. But also it doesn't sound worse. I was worried about re-installing and torquing down the rockers.

I put it back together so I can take it to a mechanic to look and listen to it. I think I've reached the end of my patience and mechanical abilities.


I should have snapped more pictures of the valley but I didn't. I just took a couple of the cam to see if the lifters may be hurting the cam. Does it look ok?

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My thoughts: When I redid a stock Magnum 5.9/360, with a new aftermarket camshaft, it rattled like that when cold ,went away with warming up.(lifter preload my thoughts, have you actually done a valve tip sweep/mock up for pushrod length?) I won't do a Magnum again (cam added...),without doing this....
 
My understand about hydraulic roller lifters is they require more preload than a flat tappet hydraulic. At least that's what I have read. It would make sense then if you have a non stock cam that it is a reduced base circle and that would require longer pushrods.
 
RustyRatRod said:
My understand about hydraulic roller lifters is they require more preload than a flat tappet hydraulic. At least that's what I have read. It would make sense then if you have a non stock cam that it is a reduced base circle and that would require longer pushrods.
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Rob,my learning curve,reflects those comments. Anymore, there Is "no safe,sure bolt in " in aftermarket parts anymore. There is a reason,why people run stock style equipment , unless looking for serious E.T. numbers.
 
Abodybomber said:
Rob,my learning curve,reflects those comments. Anymore, there Is "no safe,sure bolt in " in aftermarket parts anymore. There is a reason,why people run stock style equipment , unless looking for serious E.T. numbers.
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I have gotten to where if I make s non stock cam swap in any engine now, I measure for correct pushrod length.

Cam makers are stupid secretive and most times will not tell you if their cam is ground on a smaller base circle. You have to measure.
 
Abodybomber said:
My thoughts: When I redid a stock Magnum 5.9/360, with a new aftermarket camshaft, it rattled like that when cold ,went away with warming up.(lifter preload my thoughts, have you actually done a valve tip sweep/mock up for pushrod length?) I won't do a Magnum again (cam added...),without doing this....
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I agree, magnums with stock rockers are very picky about pushrod length since you have no adjustment for preload. What lift cam is in there? Did you look at lifter preload when the intake was off?
 

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How about a wrist pin? Will sound like that, rattle. Are these cut skirt pistons? could be piston slap. Just my two cents. MT
 
I need to find a mechanic who can figure it out and fix it.

Unfortunately the few mechanics I've spoken with their eye's glaze over when I start talking about measuring for the correct length push rod. I have no clue what I'm doing and when I have to start telling a mechanic why and how to measure push rod length, then I know I'm not talking to the right person. I wish I would have done the same thing when I picked the guy to rebuild and assemble my engine. He's a machine shop owner and he doesn't even own an adjustable push rod. When he assembled my engine he said the rockers were hitting the valve tip perfectly.
 
I recently purchased my Duster, the PO had a valve job done. All of the tops of the valves were at different heights and the non-adjustable rockershafts were not properly preloading the lifters.
 
I put adjustable rockers on it but the noise is still there. I've put over 7,000 miles on the engine and it is still running fine. I've just learned to live with the noise.
 
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