Engine Oil Discussion

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A high mileage engine has ring & bearing wear. Here in Oz, we can get 40w/70 oil for worn engines for hotter parts of the country.
For a car in Switzerland, I would use 20w/50 oil, min or syn, that has Zn/Ph in it.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Slick 50 was Teflon not silicone.

Its 2023. Not using a synthetic oil is just nonsense.
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Correct, teflon, my bad.
Thats a pretty weak statement with zero scientific facts to back it up. I clearly laid out the the advantages of synthetic oils and unless you are putting the engine to extreme conditions, any oil that has passed the API certification standards will work just fine. You are correct, this is 2023. We are not seeing API SA oil on the shelves anymore.
 
ACME SS said:
Correct, teflon, my bad.
Thats a pretty weak statement with zero scientific facts to back it up. I clearly laid out the the advantages of synthetic oils and unless you are putting the engine to extreme conditions, any oil that has passed the API certification standards will work just fine. You are correct, this is 2023. We are not seeing API SA oil on the shelves anymore.
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I have posted the facts of quality synthetic oil several times on this forum. I didn’t do it again because it’s redundant. What I will do is sum it up like this.

The ONLY thing a QUALITY synthetic oil doesn’t do better than mineral oil is cost. That’s it. The synthetic does everything better than mineral oil.

Like I said, it’s 2023. The fact that people still use mineral oil is baffling to me.
 
kinda agre w
Rat Bastid said:
I have posted the facts of quality synthetic oil several times on this forum. I didn’t do it again because it’s redundant. What I will do is sum it up like this.

The ONLY thing a QUALITY synthetic oil doesn’t do better than mineral oil is cost. That’s it. The synthetic does everything better than mineral oil.

Like I said, it’s 2023. The fact that people still use mineral oil is baffling to mekinda .
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kinda agree with you , but but i ran what ever oil was would be furnished by the small sponsers I had , back in the hemi days , as long as it was name brand , and the hemi didnt give a dam what kind , 30 , 40 or 50 weight ...
 
Rat Bastid said:
Like I said, it’s 2023. The fact that people still use mineral oil is baffling to me.
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Because it does the job I need in my engines, and cost is much less. It like comparing a cup of Maxwell house coffee to Starbucks coofee. I don't need to spend $5.00 for a cup of coffee.
 
Charrlie_S said:
Because it does the job I need in my engines, and cost is much less. It like comparing a cup of Maxwell house coffee to Starbucks coofee. I don't need to spend $5.00 for a cup of coffee.
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Are you doing engine oil analysis? Have you done actual back to back testing on an engine dyno between the cheap oil you use and a quality synthetic oil (it is very expensive to correctly test engine oils…so much so that most people won’t do it)?

When you do some comprehensive testing you quickly learn quality oil is cheap and cheap oil is just cheap.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Are you doing engine oil analysis? Have you done actual back to back testing on an engine dyno between the cheap oil you use and a quality synthetic oil (it is very expensive to correctly test engine oils…so much so that most people won’t do it)?

When you do some comprehensive testing you quickly learn quality oil is cheap and cheap oil is just cheap.
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No I don't do oil analysis, or dyno testing. As you say it can get expensive, and in my situation. not needed. I have only had two engine oil related failures in about 50 years. One was in my early days of slant six racing (cured by using full groove main bearings) and one was about 1 month ago, due to running the engine out of oil. (my own fault). I have done back to back drag strip runs with different viscosities of conventional oil. My 170 slant six engines turn between 6,000 and 7,000 rpm (depending on the engine) and have no problems. I have two vehicles I purchased new, back in the mid '80's still running fine. One has 412,000 with only a timing set change. The other has almost 200,000 and has never been opened up. I maintain, with the early engines (almost any make), if you keep the oil/filter changed, and the oil meets or exceeds API specs of SF (which almost any multi grade oil will do) Why waste money. I get my hair cut, I don't pay for a hair style.
All of that said, if you are running a "newer" type vehicle, or really extreme conditions, then yes, you need better.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Are you doing engine oil analysis? Have you done actual back to back testing on an engine dyno between the cheap oil you use and a quality synthetic oil (it is very expensive to correctly test engine oils…so much so that most people won’t do it)?

When you do some comprehensive testing you quickly learn quality oil is cheap and cheap oil is just cheap.
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Why does he need to? If the oil he runs....or anyone runs "does the job" what difference does it make? Do I need to call your wife? Imma send her a baseball bat. You best straighten up.
 
Charrlie_S said:
No I don't do oil analysis, or dyno testing. As you say it can get expensive, and in my situation. not needed. I have only had two engine oil related failures in about 50 years. One was in my early days of slant six racing (cured by using full groove main bearings) and one was about 1 month ago, due to running the engine out of oil. (my own fault). I have done back to back drag strip runs with different viscosities of conventional oil. My 170 slant six engines turn between 6,000 and 7,000 rpm (depending on the engine) and have no problems. I have two vehicles I purchased new, back in the mid '80's still running fine. One has 412,000 with only a timing set change. The other has almost 200,000 and has never been opened up. I maintain, with the early engines (almost any make), if you keep the oil/filter changed, and the oil meets or exceeds API specs of SF (which almost any multi grade oil will do) Why waste money. I get my hair cut, I don't pay for a hair style.
All of that said, if you are running a "newer" type vehicle, or really extreme conditions, then yes, you need better.
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Testing oil at the track is similar to testing oil on a dyno. The issue becomes the procedure used to do the testing.

You absolutely can not back to back oils, either at the track or on the dyno. You have to have a cleaning oil to run in between the reference oil and the test oil.

Oil remains in the engine in pretty significant quantities after you drain the pan. That residual oil skews the test results.

An example of this is when I gave some oil to be tested and they didn’t use a cleaning oil between oils and they made 3 pulls on the oil. You can’t do that.

What happens is the residual oil (and its additive package) is still in the engine when you change the oil. It takes 9 pulls (3 sets of 3 pulls) on the reference oil, 6 pulls on the cleaning oil (2 sets of 3 pulls) and 9 pulls on the test oil. That’s the ONLY way I know of to accurately test engine oils.

Is it worth it? Probably. But there are other things that synthetic oils do than just make a horsepower number. Like valve spring life. Cooler engine temperatures. You can use a thinner grade of oil (if you set your clearances up for it) and increase power and bearing life.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Why does he need to? If the oil he runs....or anyone runs "does the job" what difference does it make? Do I need to call your wife? Imma send her a baseball bat. You best straighten up.
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Evidently he doesn’t need to. But for the people who give a **** I post what I do.

It’s not 1975 any more and to argue for mineral based on price when the cost of building engines is skyrocketing is silly.

There will always be people who are shall we say…scotch who will never recognize that doing what you did 40 years ago is obsolete. I can make the arguement that doing what was done 20 or even 10 years ago is bad policy.

Honing a cylinder is just one example. What was done 10-15 years ago is obsolete. Its the same thing.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Evidently he doesn’t need to. But for the people who give a **** I post what I do.

It’s not 1975 any more and to argue for mineral based on price when the cost of building engines is skyrocketing is silly.

There will always be people who are shall we say…scotch who will never recognize that doing what you did 40 years ago is obsolete. I can make the arguement that doing what was done 20 or even 10 years ago is bad policy.

Honing a cylinder is just one example. What was done 10-15 years ago is obsolete. Its the same thing.
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May be obsolete, but it can still WORK.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Evidently he doesn’t need to. But for the people who give a **** I post what I do.

It’s not 1975 any more and to argue for mineral based on price when the cost of building engines is skyrocketing is silly.

There will always be people who are shall we say…scotch who will never recognize that doing what you did 40 years ago is obsolete. I can make the arguement that doing what was done 20 or even 10 years ago is bad policy.

Honing a cylinder is just one example. What was done 10-15 years ago is obsolete. Its the same thing.
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iF YOU ARE RUNNING A $20,000 up engine, and/or a "class" racer, you can probably justify "boutique" oils. If you are a low dollar bracket racer with a $500 engine, it makes no sense.
PS: On the track testing I did. Made 3 passes on 10-30 Quaker State. Changed oil and filter to straight 30 Quaker State, 3 runs, and then back to the 10-30 QS. Car was a ZSA 65 Valiant 170 slant six. Ran a average of almost 2 tenths slower on the straight 30 compared to the 10-30.
 
Charrlie_S said:
iF YOU ARE RUNNING A $20,000 up engine, and/or a "class" racer, you can probably justify "boutique" oils. If you are a low dollar bracket racer with a $500 engine, it makes no sense.
PS: On the track testing I did. Made 3 passes on 10-30 Quaker State. Changed oil and filter to straight 30 Quaker State, 3 runs, and then back to the 10-30 QS. Car was a ZSA 65 Valiant 170 slant six. Ran a average of almost 2 tenths slower on the straight 30 compared to the 10-30.
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I can believe the test results you’ve posted. One thing is you stayed with the same brand of oil, so the additive package remains at least similar. That’s a good test.

Where you run into issues testing oils is when you use a different brand with a different additive package (and maybe different base oils). The additive package of the better oil may not get used up (or diluted or both) in only 2-3 runs. A good oil will make a bad oil look good for a few runs. That’s why I said 9 total pulls on each oil.

I would say that since 1979 I have never seen a 500 dollar bracket engine. They didn’t exist then and they certainly don’t now. In fact, in 1980 a decent street rebuild was 1500 dollars.

Today, starting with nothing you are looking at 10-15k to build a decent bracket engine, as in something that can go 200-300 runs before it needs updates and a freshen up.

Expensive oil is cheap. Cheap oil is just that. Cheap.
 
SlantedMark4 said:
I am sorry for bringing this up again but the more I'm reading about it the more I get confused.
I have a high mileage 225 Slant Six which seems to burn and/or loose a bit of oil. I also seems to be never rebuilt. The oil pan is a bit wet but it doesn't seem to be the only issue.
Anyways, I am planning to change the engine oil since the level is low and I don't know what the previous owner had filled in.
In some forums, they said they put in synthetic 10W30 or 10W40 into the Slants while some other say synthetic stuff isn't good, just like what my father said who used to be a mechanic (and ownes some old Volvos) . Some zinc stuff is also required, some people said. My user manual says "no straight mineral oil".
An oil company here in Switzerland makes special oil for old cars. I have found one with extra zinc, based on mineral oil and SAE 50. I now don't know if this will be fine for my Slant... I have read about the Chevron Delo but I would have to import it from the States.


My question now is what oil is not good for the slant, and what do I have to check before I fill in the oil.

My Slant was built in early 1974 with a 3 speed auto, in a 4 door Valiant.
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Nice to here from a slant 6 owner in Switzerland !
Until you get the oil consumption issue fixed I wouldn't worry about running synthetic. It is more important to have regular oil/filter changes with conventional motor oil and do not let the oil level get low.
I have a few slant 6 cars and I won't muddy the waters, but I do have one that is an original 20 thousand mile 198 slant 6 that gets Amsoil Z-Rod 10w30 once a year. You will get good advice here!
 
Rat Bastid said:
I would say that since 1979 I have never seen a 500 dollar bracket engine. They didn’t exist then and they certainly don’t now. In fact, in 1980 a decent street rebuild was 1500 dollars.
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The one in my car is a bone stock rotating assy 170 CID slant six. Milled head, stock valves/rockers/340 springs, Clifford cam ($100)Home made intake 500 Holley 2bbl Home made fogger system. HEI ignition. I actually built the complete car for $1500 including buying the car. I now have about $3000 in it. Runs about 8.0 in the 1/8, and 12.8 in the 1/4 mile. Here is my original build. 66 Valiant Drag project "Charlie's Angel" (Kris) - Slant Six Forum
 
I doubt anybody with a high mileage engine could care less whether an engine makes a few more hp on the dyno with syn oil.....compared to conventional oil.....
 
Bewy said:
I doubt anybody with a high mileage engine could care less whether an engine makes a few more hp on the dyno with syn oil.....compared to conventional oil.....
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Exactly how my actual oil testing have YOU done? If your shot is worn out fix it. Or maybe it’s worn out because you use **** oil.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Are you doing engine oil analysis? Have you done actual back to back testing on an engine dyno between the cheap oil you use and a quality synthetic oil (it is very expensive to correctly test engine oils…so much so that most people won’t do it)?

When you do some comprehensive testing you quickly learn quality oil is cheap and cheap oil is just cheap.
Click to expand...

I've done real life testing in millions of miles with oils in all kinds of vehicles. I could care less about .02 in a quarter mile. I do care how long my motor runs good and how much wear is on the internals. I run conventional oil in everything from a 1966 273 to a 2001 Jeep Cherokee. From 2.0 liter 4 cylinder to a 383 V8. NEVER an engine failure, they all start and run like new with between 250,000 and 300,000 miles on them. I won't run anything lower than 10w30, and that is synthetic in the three 5.7 Hemis in the newer vehicles we own. Sell that BS to anyone that will listen, not me. With my track record, why would I experiment with "new" expensive balony.
 
In cold weather. Synthetic is almost a must today. That's where I notice. Engine cranks faster in very cold start. All warmed up I believe most of today's blends work fine.

Racing I use VR1 10w-30. I get it at a price that is significantly less than synthetic. In a race engine you change oil so frequently because of increased blow by. And with a flat tappet mechanical lifter? A zinc formulated and/or zinc additive is a must.

Just my experience.
 
66fs said:
I've done real life testing in millions of miles with oils in all kinds of vehicles. I could care less about .02 in a quarter mile. I do care how long my motor runs good and how much wear is on the internals. I run conventional oil in everything from a 1966 273 to a 2001 Jeep Cherokee. From 2.0 liter 4 cylinder to a 383 V8. NEVER an engine failure, they all start and run like new with between 250,000 and 300,000 miles on them. I won't run anything lower than 10w30, and that is synthetic in the three 5.7 Hemis in the newer vehicles we own. Sell that BS to anyone that will listen, not me. With my track record, why would I experiment with "new" expensive balony.
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Who is talking about ET? Only your dumb ***.

Ill type this real slow so you might grasp it.

The ONLY reason to not run a QUALITY synthetic oil is if you are a bull headed cheap assed mother ******. It’s that simple.

So peddle your *** backwards bullshit somewhere else. Your horse and buggy thinking belongs in a barn with the rest of your junk ****.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Who is talking about ET? Only your dumb ***.

Ill type this real slow so you might grasp it.

The ONLY reason to not run a QUALITY synthetic oil is if you are a bull headed cheap assed mother ******. It’s that simple.

So peddle your *** backwards bullshit somewhere else. Your horse and buggy thinking belongs in a barn with the rest of your junk ****.
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Idiot, name calling proves you are a clown. Going off on synthetic oil after someone with a 1974, oil burning in a 225 asks about oil? You have not an ounce of help for the OP. Go back to playing with you dyno.
 
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66fs said:
Idiot, name calling proves you are a clown. Going off on synthetic oil after someone with a 1974, oil burning in a 225 asks about oil? You have not an ounce of help for the OP. Go back to playing with you dyno.
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I didn’t go off. You jumped in on a conversation and ran your idiot mouth. You should have kept it shut because it exposed you as a fool.

Go play with your slow junk ****.
 
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