Engine swap advice

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FlatheadGeo

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Hi all,

I need some advice. Thinking about swapping the slant six in my 63 Valiant with a 318 from my 81 Imperial. The Imperial has front rail frame rot. What issues would I have to take into consideration? The Valiant has a push button tranny and the Imperial has a column shift. I just had a brand new carb, timing chain and distributor put into the slant. It still idles like a cement mixer! The interior in the Imperial seems to measure the same as the Valiant. I can swap that in, also.

What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.
 
Swapping a V8 into a '63 A-body is more difficult than swapping a V8 into a '64-up A-body. The firewall was redesigned for '64 to provide clearance for the V8 distributor and other space-takers; on an unmodified '63 the windshield wiper mount and other areas of the firewall get in the way. It's not impossible; it's been done, but just know what you are up against before you get too far into it. The K-frame won't need changing, you'll just need a pair of '64-'66 A-body V8 mounts. If you want to keep the pushbutton transmission, you'll need a '64 small-block V8 automatic trans; the car's shift cables, driveshaft, and speedo cable will go right onto the V8 transmission. If you do this, be sure to use the 1/8" spacer ring between the larger counterbore of the '67-up V8 crankshaft and the smaller nose of the '66-down torque converter, otherwise you'll lunch the transmission front seal and pump bushing.

If you want to keep the transmission presently behind the '81 318, you will either need to install some kind of aftermarket floor shifter, or swap in a '66 (-only) A-body steering column with shifter. You'll need to use the '63 column-to-firewall mount plate, so some disassembly and parts swapping will be required. Also, you'll need to have a new driveshaft made, since the '63 has a ball-and-trunnion front U-joint that bolts up to a circular flange on the transmission's output shaft, while the '81 has an internally-splined slipyoke that fits onto the externally-splined output shaft of the transmission, and goes to a cross-and-roller front U-joint. You'll also need a '66-'67 speedometer cable to connect the later transmission to the early speedometer.

You'll need to convert from the car's present rotating-rod throttle setup to a cable-type throttle control. You can either hunt up '64-'66 V8 A-body (plus '65-'66 slant-6 factory A/C A-body) parts, or get a later-model suspended accelerator and bracket and drill that onto the '63's firewall. You will also need to make provisions for the V8 kickdown linkage. Obviously you'll also need to have exhaust pipework done.

All of the above is just to get the engine to fit in the car. You'll also need to think carefully about the capacity of the brakes, suspension, and cooling system on the '63.

Unless you're burnin' to have a V8 engine in your '63, seems to me it might be easier and less frustrating (and less costly) to figure out why the \6 is running poorly and fix it. Tell us more about the carb; is it really brand new, or is it a "remanufactured" item? Have you checked to see if the engine's running on all six cylinders (but poorly) or if one or more cylinders aren't firing?
 
/6Dan,

Thanks for the data. Yes, the carb is brandy new. I guess that this info puts a whole new slant (pun intended) on the issue. Have to follow your advice and wait till the weather clears in the spring.

Geo.
 
Slant-6 tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread over on the slant-6 board…and how long since this engine has had a valve adjustment? And are ya sure the distributor is installed and timed correctly? That helical-gear distributor drive foils even those of us who mess with slants all the time; see here. Especially since the timing chain's also been replaced, it's entirely possible you're up against nothing more than improper timing.
 
possible bad news the last two slant 6's I have had apart was because the unleaded gas had started to beat the valve seats into the heads. what happens is the valve to seat has no lubrication and the valve works like a hammer on the seat until it eventually beats enough that it doesn't seal anymore.

do a compression test on the 6 and see if this is your issue.
if you do a remodel of your '63 to fit the V-8 you might consider picking up a '64 or newer firewall and paste it in so you still have windshield wipers etc. it is better than the sledge hammer solution.
 
Eventually, most any engine without hard exhaust valve seats running on unleaded fuel will experience valve seat recession, but this tends to be very slow to happen to a slant-6 in street-driven service because of the small valve size and excellent valve seat cooling. It's not a matter of lubrication, exactly; see here for detail. If this is the problem, then a head rebuild with hard exhaust seat inserts is the obvious answer (or, if you need quick 'n' cheap, swap on a '72 or later cylinder head; these have exhaust seats induction-hardened at the factory). But typically, even if the exhaust valves are receding, it doesn't directly cause the poor running until it's in its end stages. Instead, as the valve seat recedes, it reduces the effective valve lash, so the exhaust valve hangs open and bleeds off compression. A good telltale is several valve adjustments in a row during which the exhaust valve lash is found to be too tight and the adjustors have to be loosened to restore correct 0.020" clearance and smooth running.
 
Everything that has been said here has been on my mind. However, whenever I discuss these issues I am told, by mechanics, that it probably wouldn't cause the problem that I am experiencing. I have often wondered about the affects caused by unleaded gas on these cars. My 57 Studebaker is always treated to a bottle of lead additive at every fill up. My friend whose car this was always used unleaded w/o any noticeable problem.

Perhaps with the passage of time I have inherited the valve problem. In any event I shall take the car to another mechanic and have the timing re-set, if needed as suggested here. If that doesn't help, then I will remove the head.

Thanks for the input and suggestions gentlemen. Since I am not a mechanic my asking questions of mechanics here in Staten Island goes unheeded.
 
FlatheadGeo said:
My 57 Studebaker is always treated to a bottle of lead additive at every fill up
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The lead-substitute additives tend to be useless at best. Mostly they just empty your wallet and foul your spark plugs.

I shall take the car to another mechanic and have the timing re-set, if needed as suggested here. If that doesn't help, then I will remove the head.
Click to expand...

Not checking the timing yourself, eh? And what about the rest of the steps between "check the timing" and "pull the head"? Tuning, valve adjustment, etc? Looks to me as if you're out to cost yourself money!

Since I am not a mechanic my asking questions of mechanics here in Staten Island goes unheeded.
Click to expand...

As quickly as you possibly can, go buy the three books described in this thread. Put them in the bathroom and read them all cover-to-cover. It'll bring you up to speed on how your car is built, how it's supposed to work, and how to find and fix what's wrong. You really need this knowledge to drive an obsolete car today; the knowledge and experience to fix such a car correctly can no longer be generally found at whatever service shop you might patronise.
 
check or just go ahead and replace the timing chain and gears,adjust the valves to .010 on the intakes and .020 on the exhaust with the engine hot and as stated switching to a later cylinder head,and also upgrading to electronic ignition........another smart upgrade would be to upgrade the master cylinder to a dual resivoir type for safety and even bigger brakes would make the car funner to drive too! Nuthin wrong with a good runnin slanty....especially with a set of duals such as dutra's or you can make a set like mine
 
This is all good advice and stuff that I can do with the help of a friend. The mechanic that I will use has kept my Studebaker running well for over 15 years and I trust him. My brother is a mechanic as was my father. I will have to get my brother's assistance. I hate to bother anyone and try to pay out as little as possible owning eight vehicles. I can do minor stuff but really do not have the confidence to fiddle with the innards of an engine. Perhaps when I retire next year I will tackle the inner workings of these engines.

Again, I thank you all for your advice, comments and support. I should tell you that the car runs on the highway at speeds in the 70-75 mph range w/o any problems or trouble. It is the damn idling at lights and in traffic that annoys me.
 
This is where having a good timing light and a vacuum gauge can help. If the timing is jumping around at idle, it could be as simple as a bad distributor or loose point plate or more seriously, a worn out timing chain and gears. The vacuum gauge can give you an indication of a vacuum leak or poor air/fuel mixture as well as a burnt valve. Before you do ANYTHING, give it a valve adjustment and compression test to make sure the basic engine is sound. Otherwise you're just wasting your time and money guessing.
Thanks, Mark
 
I know its kinda late to post, but you can still use your pushbutton transmssion shifter with the 904 tranny bolted to your 318. BUT, you will have to swap all the internal parts of your /6 TF904 into a different case made for 64-66 v8 273/TF904 combos. This allows the use of the 2 cable shifter design as opposed to the single cable/rod shifter that was manufactured after 66. I got lucky and found one online. Contact Mark at www.727specialist.com. I think I paid $200 for my case.

As far as swapping the trans parts, its as easy as taking the parts out of the old case and putting them in the new one, assuming that the gear servos are the same size. I had to swap one out for another that was just a fraction too small. While you have the transmission pieced, its a good idea to rebuild it, since the kits are so cheap now, less than $100.

Using this swap eliminates the need for a new trans crossmember and any modification to the drive shaft. Everything you have will drop right back in the car as it was before.

The only real problems I found with wedging my 318 into my 63 were the oil filter (90* adapter needed), exhaust manifolds (need 66 273 headers to clear the steering shaft), and the wiper motor (need to dent the pi$$ out of the firewall to clearance the distributor. The throttle out of any 67-up valiant/cuda will work with a little modding. Pick up a Lokar cut-to-fit cable for a clean install.

If you want any advice on this, feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I have alot of photos of my build from start to finish you may be able to reference.

As far as brakes, I havent found any problems with my factory 9" drums. They are a little slow in stopping, but in rarely drive mine over 50 mph. Keep them adjusted properly and anticipate your stop and you shouldnt have any problems.
 
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