EngineMasters Episode 21 408/410 stroker w/ported heads

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yellow rose said:
I get the point of it and I understand the audience it's for.

My big problem is if the combo was correct for that size carb and cam and you change the intake from a dual plane to single plane, you most likely need less carb with the single plane so it is down on mid range power because the carb the engine sees is bigger than it needs to be.

Same with the cam. With a single plane, you can generally use less timing with the single plane to keep the RPM the same.

I know it takes more than a 1/2 hour to do it, but I'd have rather seen all three combos flogged and see how it comes out. So the second test would have had a smaller carb and cam. Then the ported stuff would have used the bigger carb and a cam selected just for it.

In my opinion, they left a bunch on the table with the second test and some on the table with the third, if you think the first combo was sorted out.

I hope that makes my point clear. At least as clear as mud.
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You are spot on...Yellow Rose... Freiiburger, has been spot on, on calling Edelbrock' s " as cast junk, out...." Can you deliver his horsepower numbers? I self ported 170 c.c. garbage Eddy's tox280-ish,, at .520-550 ish .. Brian at IMM cleaned my garbage up... It's all about intelligence, comprehension of where th
rumblefish360 said:
I think the intake was a bit much for the cam size and the "Street" like label for the engine.

We can all bit pick at it, but, I'm not going to bother. IMO, it was a good show for what ported heads can do on an engine that for surely needed it.
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How would you know, unless you have seen ,Dulcich porting efforts? I have seen his work, he's better than most....
 
Abodybomber said:
How would you know, unless you have seen ,Dulcich porting efforts? I have seen his work, he's better than most....
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Directed towards me about the intake?
It is my opinion and what I would have not done, use that intake with that small cam. BUT! If I'm wrong and it works best on the street, then I'm wrong. So be it if so. No worries here!
 
The guy that was marketing the airwolf heads touched up the ports and did the manifold. He ripped a lot of people off when he went out of business and took up a stint at the local circle track. Also built a complete garbage 430ish inch sb mopar for a guy I knew that never ran right and was machined comparable to the 18th century.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I think the intake was a bit much for the cam size and the "Street" like label for the engine.

We can all bit pick at it, but, I'm not going to bother. IMO, it was a good show for what ported heads can do on an engine that for surely needed it.
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That's how I see it. Shows what an engine that needs more head can do with it. And what some guys can expect from going to ported heads without any other changes. Which is a common thing a lot of guys do.

Comparing it to the old 408 is apples to oranges in my mind.

rumblefish360 said:
Directed towards me about the intake?
It is my opinion and what I would have not done, use that intake with that small cam. BUT! If I'm wrong and it works best on the street, then I'm wrong. So be it if so. No worries here!
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Like I said I would like to see the same test with the RPM air gap. They cut the dyno off at 7k. There's no reason an air gap wouldn't pull as hard or harder to the same. And I bet it would pick up a ton on the bottom end.
 
Well, IDK about the AG preforming at that rpm, but the cam is small and IMO just great for the street and a little strip. IMO it the RPM-AG is what I would put on top. I think it will produce better torque where you drive.
 
I always take these kinds of „shows“ with a big grain of salt. After all it’s a magazine thing to entertain people (and please the sponsors) and not to really give profound information (too many details left out about pretty much everything), IMO.

They want to show a huge gain for that publicity effect (and to make Dulcich a hero :p ), but a few things are off for me. So even with standard Edelbrock heads the first pull was only 448HP (?) at 5200 RPM… kinda lame for a 241/247 cam.
Or is the mismatch of heads, intake and cam that BAD (really BAD) that it not only kills torque but also horsepower? (--> J.Rob?)
 
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The few builds I've seen (all magazines) those heads seem only able to make 450 hp OOTB.

I don't know if that's the 408 from Ford vs mopar 408 or 360 vs 408. To me the 360 won it's shoot out.

Plus I don't get all the negativity.

I'm glad Steve is apart of a lot of these mags and shows cause if he wasn't it would be a lot more just Chevy ****.
 
273, it was the stroker Ford vs MoPar shoot out in episode 11.

Stixx, I agree. If it was a show that was designed around a "more technical" stand point I would rate the show as something under the fungus under week old crap from a teenage toco eating binge drinker.

But it's strictly for basic information and entertainment. You can see these guys are having fun. Heck, if I had the money for the equipment and the materials, I will be doing the same thing.
 
rumblefish360 said:
But it's strictly for basic information and entertainment. You can see these guys are having fun. Heck, if I had the money for the equipment and the materials, I will be doing the same thing.
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Absolutely true. I didn't want to sound negative... I myself am enjoying those shows... or Roadkill of course. Where in the world you get to see two guys do absolutely hilarious stuff and thrash on cars/engines just FOR FUN?
LMAO
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
14:26
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I heard that. I know he said *i think he said* id have to go back and listen again that Bruce Mulvey did the intake and then did the VJ and touched up the ports a bit.

The way I heard it, Dulcich did most of the heavy lifting on the ports, moving the PR hole and filling the old hole and moving the intake bolts.
 
Man, most of you guys are just cynical old bastards!!! It's a show meant for entertainment purposes that happens to shine light on interesting topics. Main takeaway of this eposide, a good port job results in nice power increase. That is all, nothing more, nothing less.

OK, flame away...
 
WSUTARD said:
Man, most of you guys are just cynical old bastards!!! It's a show meant for entertainment purposes that happens to shine light on interesting topics. Main takeaway of this eposide, a good port job results in nice power increase. That is all, nothing more, nothing less.

OK, flame away...
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I think I addressed that.

That doesn't mean they did the testing as good as they could have. That's why real testing is so expensive. The more variables you eliminate, the more it costs.

So I get why they did what they did. At least they ported the intake and didn't just do a port match. Most guys spend all the $$$$ for porting and then port match the intake and wonder why it's not making the power it should.
 
stixx said:
I always take these kinds of „shows“ with a big grain of salt. After all it’s a magazine thing to entertain people (and please the sponsors) and not to really give profound information (too many details left out about pretty much everything), IMO.

They want to show a huge gain for that publicity effect (and to make Dulcich a hero :p ), but a few things are off for me. So even with standard Edelbrock heads the first pull was only 448HP (?) at 5200 RPM… kinda lame for a 241/247 cam.
Or is the mismatch of heads, intake and cam that BAD (really BAD) that it not only kills torque but also horsepower? (--> J.Rob?)
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It does sound lame for that cam. But that's almost exactly what the engine is rated for from blue print - BPC4083CTC - Chrysler 408 Base Dressed Alum Heads | BluePrint Engines

So it's pretty much spot on for how blue print built it. Although yes, in my mind 445 horse out of 408 isn't impressive. Especially with that kinda cam. But it does show what ported heads can do for a combo that obviously needs it.
 
Eddy performer right out of the box on my 418 stroker.
511 torque @ 4300 and 480 HP @ 5700
LD340 dual Plane intake with just the MP mod.
Should I pull them off and send them out to get ported? Nahhh. Works fine the way it is. :) But never say never...
 
'Cuda_ragtop said:
Eddy performer right out of the box on my 418 stroker.
511 torque @ 4300 and 480 HP @ 5700
LD340 dual Plane intake with just the MP mod.
Should I pull them off and send them out to get ported? Nahhh. Works fine the way it is. :) But never say never...
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With what cam?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Well, IDK about the AG preforming at that rpm, but the cam is small and IMO just great for the street and a little strip. IMO it the RPM-AG is what I would put on top. I think it will produce better torque where you drive.
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If single plane ...id use the vic340, if I was gambling on good torque and rpm's into7k... i'd run run the ld340, I can fetch 3rd at 7k with one on my 410. My thoughts on the heads is they don't reflect the power you'd expect to see from a set of heads that were taken into those lengths-push rod holes moved-that's all, I mean it made 530 n that's good...maybe I just ignore the cam they used and should see more than the those heads cuffed to that hp.:popcorn:
 
yellow rose said:
I think I addressed that.

That doesn't mean they did the testing as good as they could have. That's why real testing is so expensive. The more variables you eliminate, the more it costs.

So I get why they did what they did. At least they ported the intake and didn't just do a port match. Most guys spend all the $$$$ for porting and then port match the intake and wonder why it's not making the power it should.
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true.
This was another motor for chubby with the lisp, so its just a 'lets see what we get and what it does' more than intention, is my take.
 
yellow rose said:
With what cam?
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This is the PN on my Dyno Sheets.
Camshaft: SR 246/362-2S-8IG , .543/.561 L/S: 104 Int. C/L: 108
I just left it up to my builder. I told him I wanted gobbs of low-mid range torque on pump gas and not to lurch along at low rpm. He delivered.

He has a relationship with Crane Cams from his time [20+ years] building engines for Petty racing.
He said he just calls a guy he knows there and tells him what he wants.
Could be a custom grind...
 
'Cuda_ragtop said:
This is the PN on my Dyno Sheets.
Camshaft: SR 246/362-2S-8IG , .543/.561 L/S: 104 Int. C/L: 108
I just left it up to my builder. I told him I wanted gobbs of low-mid range torque on pump gas and not to lurch along at low rpm. He delivered.

He has a relationship with Crane Cams from his time [20+ years] building engines for Petty racing.
He said he just calls a guy he knows there and tells him what he wants.
Could be a custom grind...
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Your engine makes my point. It's essentially the same as in the EM video but you made more power. I'm not sure the cam they started with was even close to optimal and with the better intake and heads it was certainly not the correct cam.

Thanks for posting your info.
 
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