Fairly stock 318/904 w new gears

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NoahSewal

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Hey guys I was wondering if anyone has any opinion of what this setup would be like. Ive got a fairly stock 1974 dart with the original 318 with just a 4bbl carb on it and some bigger valves. The torque converter is stock and so is the 904 transmission. Right now its got an 8 1/4 rear with 2.45 gears. Would there be a noticeable difference if i threw a 8 3/4 rear in it with say 3.91 gears? how big of a change would there be. Im going with the 8 3/4 because I plan on doing more with the engine and trans/tc. Im not worried of my highway gears because it'll only be driven in town.
 
2.45 to 3.91 will be night and day different.
 
Yes there will be a huge difference in how it drives. I know you said you don't care about highway but just for reference and while making a few assumptions, right now to go 70mph with the 2.45 you might be spinning about 2000-2200 rpm. With the 3.91 you might be spinning closer to about 3400-3600 rpm. It might not be as enjoyable at those highway speeds but you will get to that speed a hell of a lot quicker
 
Just throw a limited slip and some 3.5-3.9 ish gears into your 8.25 out of an early Dakota or Jeep Cherokee that had an 8.25.
8.25s are plenty strong for a healthy street car. Make use of what you've got.
 
Just throw a limited slip and some 3.5-3.9 ish gears into your 8.25 out of an early Dakota or Jeep Cherokee that had an 8.25.
8.25s are plenty strong for a healthy street car. Make use of what you've got.
I would but the carrier is different for the 2.45 gears. so since I have to get a different rear I might as well go to the 8 3/4.
 
I would but the carrier is different for the 2.45 gears. so since I have to get a different rear I might as well go to the 8 3/4.
Correct and depending on year model and this and that yada yada, you MIGHT run into different housings as well with the 8 1/4.
 
I would but the carrier is different for the 2.45 gears. so since I have to get a different rear I might as well go to the 8 3/4.
When you add the limited slip unit, you are replacing the carrier. Lots of them in salvage yards with your gear ratios. The housings do not change because of the ratio, only the ring gear offset of the carrier or L.S. unit. Get them as a unit and you're golden.
Sometime in the 90's (96 or so?) they changed the axle spline count, so stay away from those later carriers/LSs.
 
When you add the limited slip unit, you are replacing the carrier. Lots of them in salvage yards with your ger ratios. The housings do not change because of the ratio, only the ring gear offset of the carrier or L.S. unit. Get them as a unit and you're golden.
From what I understand the pinion is in a different location for the lower gearing. this makes the carrier for higher ratios not useable in my housing.
 
From what I understand the pinion is in a different location for the lower gearing. this makes the carrier for higher ratios not useable in my housing.
You're catchin on. You musta been readin the 8 1/4 thread we have here. Lots good info there.
 
Pinion stayed in the same place, they moved the ring gear over by using a different offset carrier, as I said. I can vouch for it, as I have done this twice (used later gears/carriers in the 2.xx housings).
 
What kind of driving are you going to do? 3.91 isn’t great for the freeway at all.

Just going to 3.23 from 2.45 it will be a completely different car to drive.

I’d go 8 3/4, easy gear swaps.
 
It's a numbers thing ; 3.91/2.45=Plus 60% gearing
When you take off, two things are gonna happen;
1) the engine is gonna rev up right after it starts moving, no more waiting, AND the 4bbl is gonna open much much sooner, PLUS, if it doesn't, you can adjust it to, and NOT get into the dreaded bog right away.
2) an additional 60% torque multiplication, on the start-line, can be thought of as your 318engine with 3.91s, having just gotten 60% more torque . If your engine makes 160ftlbs at 2000 rpm , that would be 61hp. Adding 60% torque would be 256 ftlbs and at 2000 rpm feels like 98 hp. That's pretty impressive.

But I'll tell you what , you can do better.
Stick a higher stall TC in there and you won't need as much rear gear to do the same thing except the car will launch harder yet.
Say your new TC launches at Plus 30% torque, so 160 grows to 208ftlbs, lets say at 2800, and that would be 111 hp.
Now lets put some 3.23s in her, so you can run the hiway without going broke on gas.
Ok so; 3.23/2.45= plus 32% torque multiplication so your 206ftlbs is gonna feel like 272 ftlbs or 145 hp. Ok sign me up;
but remember this, the Higher stall helps get your car moving, but once your car has used the stall up, the gears and 4bbl have to carry you thru the rest of the gear. And beyond. The thing is, with a streeter and 3.23s, top of Second gear is pushing 80 mph, so yur gonna be shut down about 99% of the time long before that.

So here is the question I think you should be asking ;
Which combo will will be quicker in the Zero to 60 speed contest:
1) nothing but the 4bbl 318 with 3.91s, or
2) the 4bbl 318 with a 2800 and 3.23s
I don't know the answer to that, but I do know which one will make you want to do it over and over and over :) That would be #2;
 
It's a numbers thing ; 3.91/2.45=Plus 60% gearing
When you take off, two things are gonna happen;
1) the engine is gonna rev up right after it starts moving, no more waiting, AND the 4bbl is gonna open much much sooner, PLUS, if it doesn't, you can adjust it to, and NOT get into the dreaded bog right away.
2) an additional 60% torque multiplication, on the start-line, can be thought of as your 318engine with 3.91s, having just gotten 60% more torque . If your engine makes 160ftlbs at 2000 rpm , that would be 61hp. Adding 60% torque would be 256 ftlbs and at 2000 rpm feels like 98 hp. That's pretty impressive.

But I'll tell you what , you can do better.
Stick a higher stall TC in there and you won't need as much rear gear to do the same thing except the car will launch harder yet.
Say your new TC launches at Plus 30% torque, so 160 grows to 208ftlbs, lets say at 2800, and that would be 111 hp.
Now lets put some 3.23s in her, so you can run the hiway without going broke on gas.
Ok so; 3.23/2.45= plus 32% torque multiplication so your 206ftlbs is gonna feel like 272 ftlbs or 145 hp. Ok sign me up;
but remember this, the Higher stall helps get your car moving, but once your car has used the stall up, the gears and 4bbl have to carry you thru the rest of the gear. And beyond. The thing is, with a streeter and 3.23s, top of Second gear is pushing 80 mph, so yur gonna be shut down about 99% of the time long before that.

So here is the question I think you should be asking ;
Which combo will will be quicker in the Zero to 60 speed contest:
1) nothing but the 4bbl 318 with 3.91s, or
2) the 4bbl 318 with a 2800 and 3.23s
I don't know the answer to that, but I do know which one will make you want to do it over and over and over :) That would be #2;
very good response. definitely has me thinking. thank you for the good thoughts
 
Just throw a limited slip and some 3.5-3.9 ish gears into your 8.25 out of an early Dakota or Jeep Cherokee that had an 8.25.
8.25s are plenty strong for a healthy street car. Make use of what you've got.
iIRC the 2.45 carrier is different than the rest
 
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