Feels like the wheels will fall off.. Ideas..?

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67cuda360

67cuda360

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Hi, recently I noticed shaking coming from the left front end (like the rim is about to fall off) on sharp right hand turns (only hear and feel it above 15-20mph)

I checked the car and suspension parts over multiple times. I jacked the car up and tried to see if there was any movement pushing and pulling the tire, left to right and top to bottom (checking ball joints etc.). There is no play there that I notice. All other suspension parts seem to be tight and have no play or movement from what I can tell.

The car drives and feels fine even at highway speed with normal turns (lane changes and normal sweeping turns). I don't think I feel or hear it on left hand turns but can't be sure.

As mentioned it only happens on tight turns (Most noticed on right-hand turns) and at speeds above 20mph. It is very significant, I've pulled over multiple times thinking all the lug nuts had fallen off and the rim was about to go :) but no, everything tight and I can't figure out what it is.

Any ideas...?
 
oh yeah, car is '67 barracuda with '74 up K member and suspension parts (disc conversion) 360 727 with powersteering. Aftermarket upper control arms (built by a member here), so the car has new upper ball-joints.
 
Have you checked the tires for wear?
Wonder if your alignment is affected by a worn part.
Idler or steering box loose? Crack in k-frame at steering box?
 
Yeah sound to me like your tires. might be needing replacing.

i had 225/70/14 in the front that i use as spares and they were old and cracked a little "mushy" so that combines with wear it was doing a little wobble.

or the UCA bolts loose?
or check for play on your links.
 
Tires are pretty much brand new with no sign of wear. Upper control arm bolts (for setting camber/caster etc) are tight. I'll have to check the steering box and idler, but when I was under the car all of those felt tight with no play. I'll have to check for a crack like mentioned above. Would a loose steering box (power steering) cause something like this or would you feel it all the time?
 
67cuda360 said:
I checked the car and suspension parts over multiple times. I jacked the car up and tried to see if there was any movement pushing and pulling the tire, left to right and top to bottom (checking ball joints etc.). There is no play there that I notice.
Click to expand...

This is certainly not to poke fun. The fact is, we don't know your knowledge level, mechanic's history, or history of the car, or know if YOU know the history of the car

Are you experienced in front end rebuild / alignment/ troubleshooting? That is, you can's just "feel for loose" you have to do it "right."

Have you read the factory manual? EG, checking many items, you cannot do so if the car is jacked up and suspension "hanging." For many tests, you MUST either have wheels on the ground, or jacks / stands under the A arms, etc.

And, many times it takes two people to find certain things.
 
THIS IS TRUE ^

you wont be able to feel anything loose when in fact it might be loose.

but when driving its the weight of the car that loosens and creates the wobble.
 
Had a front tire that was only 1 year old that a belt gave way in the tire, same symptoms as you described. could not see a bulge on the outside of tire either. tried some one else's tire and all was good. so replaced front tires and no problems since
 
Lower control arm shaft sleeves may be broken loose from the K member..... (HAPPENS ALOT)
 
To check tire problem swap front tires L to R. If same results but more noticeable on left turns, problem is in the tires. One of the problems of using the pull test on the front end of a disk brake car results from the caliper being in contact with the brake rotor. Suggest retracting caliper piston(s) into the housing and repeat pull test. What you're looking for is a loose wheel bearing or one that is not properly seated on the axle. Take care when retracting caliper pistons. This will force brake fluid into the master cylinder, possibly causing an overflow. It may be necessary to remove caliper entirely in order to create potential "wiggle" room. If that is necessary, examine the brake pads carefully. Look for radial taper on the pad. There should be none observable with the naked eye.
 
also take a big pry bar and pry on front end parts to see if you have anything that has any play.
 
Can't let front suspension just hang when looking for "loose". Upper control arms will then be on the rubber stops.
Leave some room between the stops and the upper control arms and start heaving on stuff to see what moves.
Tires with broken belts pull continuously.
I'm fighting a similar weirdness on a 72 Dart, where I put in a new idler arm, and it STILL has play on the shaft, LOTS of play.
Going into a right hander, I have to be careful for sudden oversteer.
No wear on the bolt, or bracket that I can see, but you ought to see it wiggle when you pull on it!
I learned how to adjust/change/tune align front ends many years ago, and think nothing of pulling into a parking lot to adjust toe in angle, etc. if it's needed.

Don't just pay to have it fixed, learn what's really going on.
This is what's called "empowerment".
 
While you are looking for loose, also look for shiny. If a part is moving where it should be tight, you may be able to spot a shiny spot resulting from the shifting back & to.
C
 
I'm still betting on lower control arm sleeves broken loose. My old 75 Dart had a similar issue and started eating tires on long trips. Dive into a turn and all hell broke loose! Bushings looked fine but once you back the control arm out away from the K frame you can see the problem.
 
What ride height are you at and what rake?
If you have lowered the car significantly, or cranked in a bunch of caster; this has a tendency to destroy the factory ackerman.
When the two front wheels do not follow their prescribed, concentric, circles, then they fight eachother to control the turn, with the more heavily loaded wheel winning. The loser however makes it's presence known by other ways; such as squealing, wobbling and loosing rubber in the deal.
If the strutrod bushings are loose or worn, they will allow the LCA to move around,especially during cornering. This also changes the caster, which changes the ackerman...
Pump up the tires to the maximum listed on the sidewall, and roadtest it. If the problem diminishes at all, you may have ackerman problems.By doing this, the unloaded tire will try to negotiate the turn on the edge of the tire; a very narrow line. This reduces the tendency to wobble or vibrate.
A bad toe-setting will also mess with ackerman, especially on a car with a modified caster setting.
As to the alignment
Set the ride height to the stock setting,and shoot for the maximum amount of positive caster you can get, while setting the camber to about 1/2 degree negative.Both sides set the same.
The car should be level at the rockers or nearly so; with the rear absolutely not,lower than the front.A bit higher is OK. The car should be level from side to side, at both ends.
Once you have the ride height set to the factory height, and the entire car squared up, you can take a measurement from the center of the K-member to the ground-plain, and use this for future reference.
Once you are rid of the problem, you can experiment with different ride heights, and such.If the problem returns,or you cannot get rid of it, then you will have to check the toe change with suspension travel, to see what the toe is doing.Toe-changes can be very problematic.
If you are running bias-ply tires,on the street,on the front, well that is a problem. These tires do not do well with alignment settings other than factory.They run best in a straight line,on a car with little-to-no toe-change with suspension travel.
Good luck
 
AJ/FormS said:
What ride height are you at and what rake?
If you have lowered the car significantly, or cranked in a bunch of caster; this has a tendency to destroy the factory ackerman.
When the two front wheels do not follow their prescribed, concentric, circles, then they fight eachother to control the turn, with the more heavily loaded wheel winning. The loser however makes it's presence known by other ways; such as squealing, wobbling and loosing rubber in the deal.
If the strutrod bushings are loose or worn, they will allow the LCA to move around,especially during cornering. This also changes the caster, which changes the ackerman...
Pump up the tires to the maximum listed on the sidewall, and roadtest it. If the problem diminishes at all, you may have ackerman problems.By doing this, the unloaded tire will try to negotiate the turn on the edge of the tire; a very narrow line. This reduces the tendency to wobble or vibrate.
A bad toe-setting will also mess with ackerman, especially on a car with a modified caster setting.
As to the alignment
Set the ride height to the stock setting,and shoot for the maximum amount of positive caster you can get, while setting the camber to about 1/2 degree negative.Both sides set the same.
The car should be level at the rockers or nearly so; with the rear absolutely not,lower than the front.A bit higher is OK. The car should be level from side to side, at both ends.
Once you have the ride height set to the factory height, and the entire car squared up, you can take a measurement from the center of the K-member to the ground-plain, and use this for future reference.
Once you are rid of the problem, you can experiment with different ride heights, and such.If the problem returns,or you cannot get rid of it, then you will have to check the toe change with suspension travel, to see what the toe is doing.Toe-changes can be very problematic.
If you are running bias-ply tires,on the street,on the front, well that is a problem. These tires do not do well with alignment settings other than factory.They run best in a straight line,on a car with little-to-no toe-change with suspension travel.
Good luck
Click to expand...
But bias ply tires are so quiet on the pavement...!
Important in a convertible Grand Touring application.
 
FONT SHAKES? hmmmm.....
wow still? this i s an old one. i have to re-read.

suspects
Upper control arms-
tie rods -
steering arm -
pitman arm -
idler arm -
wheel bearings -
bad wheels/tires?
bad bushings somewhere?
loose steering box?
motor mounts?

something had to be installed wrong.
littlest of things..... happened to me. :(
 
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