Few questions on having and engine built.

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doogievlg

doogievlg

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I am in the planning process of putting together a stroker motor. I have never had a shop build an engine for me but for lack of time and space at the moment I am going to be taking it to a builder to have it done. I do not want to be overbearing and I want to make his job as easy as possible along the way. Should I simply take the motor to him and allow him to order all the parts? Should I tear the engine down to the block and just give him the block and heads and parts I will be reusing?

At the moment I am undecided on if I want him to just assemble the short block or the entire engine but I will using a shop that breaks in the cam and dials in the engine on dyno if they assemble the whole thing. I am hoping some of our professional builders chime in here with their advice.
 
Have you asked them? It really depends on the shop. Mine has be buy what I want to use.
 
I prefer to build my own engines so I can be sure that it's done right....

I would buy my own parts and give them to the builder so he doesn't put el-cheapo parts in it...
 
krazykuda said:
I prefer to build my own engines so I can be sure that it's done right....

I would buy my own parts and give them to the builder so he doesn't put el-cheapo parts in it...
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And.....even then there's no guarantee he'll use the parts you bought.
I'd go with MLR.....

Jeff
 
MrJLR said:
And.....even then there's no guarantee he'll use the parts you bought.
I'd go with MLR.....

Jeff
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Exactly, the old switcheroo....

That's why I like to build my own... That way it's done right, and to my standards....
 
Just handing over a pile of parts and saying 'build it' is a poor formula. First think each out each step like you were doing it. Then:

1. Write down a list of exactly what you want done and spend some time up front going over each line item. Don't assume that they will know all the small things that you would want done. And discuss clearances and technical details.
2. Ask how they do the important thing. Each shop will have their own preferences and procedures. You might pick up on something that they would do that you question or don't like, or find out things that you did not know.
3. Ask if you can be called to look at the work at stages. Things like cam bearing installation and how well the holes line up can be vexing.

Engine builders are typically pretty sharp cookies, so if you run into one who can't or won't explain things then move on, IMHO. Some are easy to talk to and some are not. I'd be looking for the ones who will take time to answer reasonable questions.

Do you have local hot rod friends who can make recommendations?
 
BTW, what do you mean by "dials in the engine" on the dyno? This is exactly the type of thing you need to think out in detail first, and write down and discuss A to Z. 'Dial in' can mean a million things, and if you aren't clear with yourself and them I can almost guarantee you will be disappointed in that phase of the work.
 
doogievlg said:
I am in the planning process of putting together a stroker motor. I have never had a shop build an engine for me but for lack of time and space at the moment I am going to be taking it to a builder to have it done. I do not want to be overbearing and I want to make his job as easy as possible along the way. Should I simply take the motor to him and allow him to order all the parts? Should I tear the engine down to the block and just give him the block and heads and parts I will be reusing?

At the moment I am undecided on if I want him to just assemble the short block or the entire engine but I will using a shop that breaks in the cam and dials in the engine on dyno if they assemble the whole thing. I am hoping some of our professional builders chime in here with their advice.
Click to expand...

If you are not far from Detriot, I know a guy there that can build it.
 
nm9stheham said:
BTW, what do you mean by "dials in the engine" on the dyno? This is exactly the type of thing you need to think out in detail first, and write down and discuss A to Z. 'Dial in' can mean a million things, and if you aren't clear with yourself and them I can almost guarantee you will be disappointed in that phase of the work.
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If I am having them assemble the entire engine then I will want them to set the timing and tune the carb. so it is running great. Break in the cam and adjust valves. As far as your other post goes, there seems to be a pretty good mopar shop up in Dayton Ohio called Kammer & Kammer enterprises. There are a few other engine builders in Cincinnati that know their way around a Mopar but I am really looking for a shop that focuses on Chryslers. I am willing to drive a couple hours for the right shop.
 
I'm just a hobbyist, but I've learned some things along the way through both good and bad experience.

Number 1, you get what you pay for. With some obvious exceptions, this is largely true. Find a shop that has a good reputation. There are some great Mopar specific shops recommended on this site. Moparts also has some of the best information available on the web.

You really need to define EXACTLY what you intend to use the car to do. If you want to sacrifice drivability for performance, you will get a car that requires sacrifice for daily driving. If you want great street manners, you will have to sacrifice some power. In general terms, these are the laws of the sport. However, using modern engine management technology i.e. EFI, turbo charging with EFI etc, properly matching the engine to the driveline and chassis etc, you can raise the curve so high that you appear to get the best of both worlds. That being said, you can also skew that balancing act one way or the other to the extent of your tolerance.

Think well about what you really want the car to behave like, and build the engine for that.

These days, I get my short blocks and heads built by professionals and assemble the long blocks myself. Shipping is relatively cheap. I had a fully built and dyno'd long block shipped 3/4 of the way across the country in a container for $300. Don't let the shipping fees keep you from using a well-known and reliable Mopar specific engine builder.
 
I'm not real close to Cincy, but not terribly far either. At least it's a neighboring state.

I prefer that customers allow me to supply the parts, short of a used block, and maybe crank, heads etc. I can buy them cheaper, sell them competitively, and stand behind the parts I choose.

The customer is welcome to bring their own parts with the understanding that it will probably cost them more money in the long run, and I make no guarantee on the compatibility or performance of their selected parts. When they do, they are usually disappointed with the outcome and the cost because I can't work for free, and if they know enough to pick the parts for what they want, they should be knowledgeable enough to build it themselves. Professional builders get paid for what they know, as well as what they do.
 
Just do some research and be able to communicate with the engine builder. Keep in mind overhaul, rebuild, and blueprinting are three different things and are respectively more involved.
 
Sometimes it's a rough road to hoe, I've been building motors for a long time and always learning new things, I found a guy to buy parts from that was really smart and gave me ideas on cam design and a few other things then out of the blue he sold me a pile of junk parts that didn't even fit together, a reground old junk core cam that looked like someone kicked it around on the garage floor, junk china roller rockers 3/8 stud and 7/16 studs not to mention the wrong gaskets. A junk gear drive that the customer wanted that wouldn't fit over the radius of the crank, it started out as just a scat rotating assy for a chevy 400. He also sent me press pins not floating 7" balancer not 8" the hole engine was a nightmare because It was done the way the customer wanted it not the way I wanted to do it at first and it cost him a fortune and a major pain for me.
 
There are several great builders who support the site. I've done business with MRL and B3RE with excellent results. The others I wouldn't hesitate to contact based on their reputation here.
 
B3RE said:
The customer is welcome to bring their own parts with the understanding that it will probably cost them more money in the long run, and I make no guarantee on the compatibility or performance of their selected parts. When they do, they are usually disappointed with the outcome and the cost because I can't work for free, and if they know enough to pick the parts for what they want, they should be knowledgeable enough to build it themselves. Professional builders get paid for what they know, as well as what they do.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This.
 
It's always a lose, lose, when someone that doesn't actually know what they need only what they want, wants you to build a engine for them. not knocking the OP that doesn't have time that is usually a different story. It will never run the way he thought and that's your fault and it cost more, that's your fault. Tell him what you want in a engine and listen to the engine builder, he will tell you what you need.
 
doogievlg said:
If I am having them assemble the entire engine then I will want them to set the timing and tune the carb. so it is running great.
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I am not trying to be mean in any way but this sounds like a too-generalized way of looking at things that will lead to troubles. The last phrase is the problem...... define 'running great'. That is what you need to speak with them and think about and mutually come up with some objective measures of performance that they can work to on a dyno, not some subjective criteria that you can interpret differently than them.

With a dyno, they can't spend the time in the car that will really load the engine and run it at all sorts of different environmental situations as it will really see on the street. Dyno loading can only find so much. So if they run it to peak HP or something like that, it may still have things like slight off-idle flat spots, poor fuel economy, etc.

I build systems (non-automotive) all the time for a living, and we always put down objective criteria to meet. When folks start becoming subjective ("it's slow") then I have to get technical and ask "So exactly how slow is it?"
 
doogievlg said:
I am in the planning process of putting together a stroker motor. I have never had a shop build an engine for me but for lack of time and space at the moment I am going to be taking it to a builder to have it done. I do not want to be overbearing and I want to make his job as easy as possible along the way. Should I simply take the motor to him and allow him to order all the parts? Should I tear the engine down to the block and just give him the block and heads and parts I will be reusing?

At the moment I am undecided on if I want him to just assemble the short block or the entire engine but I will using a shop that breaks in the cam and dials in the engine on dyno if they assemble the whole thing. I am hoping some of our professional builders chime in here with their advice.
Click to expand...

Every machine shop I've ever known of will build with parts you choose, or offer an even better alternative...at least the good ones, and they'll usually get the parts you want at a cheaper price than you. The top end can be mock up x10 to get everything right and parts located to accomplish such...but depends on what your doing.
 
I literally just walked in my door from a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert so this is not the best time to get technical but I appreciate all the advice. I will likely let the builder handle it all and just give him an idea of what I am looking for. I have built engines in the past of the same caliber I am looking for but if I am going to pay a professional to do it this time then I will leave it up to them. I like to think that if someone is doing it for a living that they are more knowledgeable than I am.
 
I still am not sure if I should take the engine to them assembled or torn apart though.
 
doogievlg said:
If I am having them assemble the entire engine then I will want them to set the timing and tune the carb. so it is running great. Break in the cam and adjust valves. As far as your other post goes, there seems to be a pretty good mopar shop up in Dayton Ohio called Kammer & Kammer enterprises. There are a few other engine builders in Cincinnati that know their way around a Mopar but I am really looking for a shop that focuses on Chryslers. I am willing to drive a couple hours for the right shop.
Click to expand...
Whitepunk's new shop. I know it's a way to drive...
 
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