final pix of subframe connectors

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moparmat2000

moparmat2000

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again for some reason i cant seem to add pix to an existing thread. maybe im a bit computer illeterate LOL. so to recap, i used 2"x 3"x 1/8" steel square stock. i layed the tubing on its side making it 3" wide 2" tall for several reasons. i wanted to overlap the frame rails at the back, and be able to clear the brake lines, and fuel lines. i also wanted to have it not intrude too much in the rear foot well areas, and there was the issue of routing the parking brake cable.

i finally had time the other day to completely finish these up, and as of this post they are sprayed with weld thru primer, and are now ready to clamp in place and weld up. i decided to route the parking brake cable inside the frame rail, as i will be installing front and rear torque plates on the car too. i think routing it this way made the most sense. i have pictures showing this. notice the bump out on the drivers side connector "fishplate" at the forward end for the cable.

if you decide to copy how i made these or even reroute your parking brake cable when installing subframe connectors the hole size for the parking brake cable hole to be able to use the cable retaining clip is a 1/2" hole. the cable hole i made at the front side of the crossmember is slightly larger than 3/4" to fit the cable through. i mocked up my brake lines at the firewall, and my clutch Zee bar to make sure these parts wont interfere with the park brake cable and they wont.

hope some of you found this informative. theres many ways to do this job, this way worked best for me. it was an enjoyable fabrication job for my crusty cuda.

heres pix everything will be welded in soon, then its on to the next crusty cuda project :D
 

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thanks for the kudos.

i have been thinking the parking brake cable issue thru for some time, i think the way i routed it is actually the best way to run it, no issues with the subframe connectors doing it this way, and it will clear everything else that needs to be near it. once i install front torque plates i wouldent be able to get to the cable anyways if i routed it outside the framerail.

i have a hole i have to patch in the crossmember, as i tried initially to route the cable outside the framerail, and have it come out above the subframe connector. You can see a little bit of the hole above the fishplate. routing it that way it would have still rubbed the subframe connector. i decided to give this project a break, and keep reworking it in my head, what i came up with was cutting off the first fishplate which i put a hole in the top of it for the cable , and fabricating a new one with a bump out for the cable and running it inside the frame. im glad i did it this way.

yes im welding it up completely, no bolting. i used the #40 wingnut clecos to maintain position on the drivers side rail so i could drill the rear hole for the cable. there were 2 reasons for this.

the front and rear holes in the crossmember that i cut, and then rotary filed slightly larger than 3/4" diameter, and the hole in the bump out on the fishplate is 1/2" diameter for the cable end and clip. by using the clecos and drilling thru the fishplate and crossember in this one spot, i know the holes are centered with 3/4" and the 1/2" right on top of it. and then the clecos will help hold it in that exact position to weld it in later, then i will just weld over the 2 small holes, and grind em down flat.

the 1/8" thick fishplates are there to spread the load. the stock crossmember is only 3/16" thick, and butting the 1/8" thick tubing directly to it would eventually cause cracks from stress. by welding the 1/8" tubing to the 1/8" plates it helps to transition the stress load to the thinner stock crossmember.

i am using a lincoln weldpak 100 wire feed flux core welder. i need to get a MIG attachment for it, way cleaner welds, but a wire wheel cleans em up ok.
 
moparmat2000 said:
the 1/8" thick fishplates are there to spread the load. the stock crossmember is only 3/16" thick, and butting the 1/8" thick tubing directly to it would eventually cause cracks from stress. by welding the 1/8" tubing to the 1/8" plates it helps to transition the stress load to the thinner stock crossmember.
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I did mine the same way in regards to the plate on the front. I also have the flux wire, somewhat messy, but hey, it works. I have another welder with the gas set up, but I haven't got it in operation yet. Poor man gots to do what he gots to do, lol.
 
they look good. moving the cable sounds like a good idea. they wont interfere with anything else?
 
fez440 said:
they look good. moving the cable sounds like a good idea. they wont interfere with anything else?
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nope not as far as i could tell. the way the exhaust gets routed, and the way the torsion bars go, its not in the way. ditto with the brake lines and Zee bar. im sure the wiring to the transmission and the speedometer cable wont be a problem either. it hugs the frame rail pretty close. sits about 1" away from it, but that can be remedied with an adel clamp, and a self tapping screw

not sure about automatic column shift or automatic floor shift cars with the linkage. or even 4 speed cars with ignition interlock. im going 4 speed without a starter interlock since its a 67.
 
Bad Sport said:
I did mine the same way in regards to the plate on the front. I also have the flux wire, somewhat messy, but hey, it works. I have another welder with the gas set up, but I haven't got it in operation yet. Poor man gots to do what he gots to do, lol.
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i agree. thats why i have put off going fluxless gas so far. im looking at $250 for the kit plus bottle and argon. i can afford the time to use a roloc disc to dress out the welds prior to paint, can be messy tho i agree.

i have bought 2" wide aluminum tape, and run it next to where im going to weld leaving a gap where i have to weld. it catches the splatter pretty well prevents it from sticking all over the place. only drawback is using a rag with laquer thinner to remove the melted sticky from the tape.

ya gotta do what ya gotta do LOL
 
did you happen to weigh them before you installed them? i am looking into doing some but wonder how heavy they are compared to the u.s cartool ones.
 
Very nice work!!!

I've got a set of 2x3 tubes to add connectors to my Duster and my GT.

Question- how much do the connectors come up through the floor? I've heard of 2" tall tubing being used without cutting the floor, but I haven't seen as detailed pictures of it. I know some road racing/autocross classes don't allow "through the floor" subframe connectors, ie, it moves you into a faster class. So I was hoping to avoid going through the floor on my Duster, as I have visions of doing autocross with it at some point.
 
72bluNblu said:
Very nice work!!!

I've got a set of 2x3 tubes to add connectors to my Duster and my GT.

Question- how much do the connectors come up through the floor? I've heard of 2" tall tubing being used without cutting the floor, but I haven't seen as detailed pictures of it. I know some road racing/autocross classes don't allow "through the floor" subframe connectors, ie, it moves you into a faster class. So I was hoping to avoid going through the floor on my Duster, as I have visions of doing autocross with it at some point.
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they come thru the floor about 1/2" at the rear pan. i plan on adding padding to either side of them under the carpet i plan on putting in. this should keep the floor looking level. plus how often do you ever have people sitting in the back seat of one of these anyways. its a bit cramped LOL.

you can use 2" tubing without it coming thru the floor if you do one of 2 things, you either overlap it so it sticks lower than the framerail at the back, or you cut 1/2" out of it on its top side so it just butts to the floor at that spot. both things i think make your install weaker than it should be.

this is why i kept the tubing boxed as far back as i could before opening the top to fit against the rear framerails. this pic i attached shows how i opened up the rear framerail just behind the floorpan for the connector.
 

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discharger1332 said:
did you happen to weigh them before you installed them? i am looking into doing some but wonder how heavy they are compared to the u.s cartool ones.
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i havent installed them yet. the US car tool ones are also 1/8" thick too. they are open at the top, but box to the floor all the way down making a super clean install. i dont think they go as far back as mine do on the rear rails, but are nice if you dont want to slot the floor. according to my dial bathroom scale they weigh 14 lbs each, and 14.8 lbs each on my digital bathroom scale. of course these are not calibrated like a Drs office. so im not sure how far off they are. I think they are one pound off to the light side.

either way you go i recommend running your parking brake cable inside the framerail like i did. otherwise with the US car tool you will have to cut a long slotted hole for the cable to come out otherwise it may rub on the connector.

i payed $25 for the material, and have a lot of time making them fit as nicely as they do, or you can spent $170 plus on the US car tool ones and have a clean easier to install setup as well. i have more time than funds so i went this route. figured i could spend the remainder of the cash elsewhere.
 
moparmat2000 said:
they come thru the floor about 1/2" at the rear pan. i plan on adding padding to either side of them under the carpet i plan on putting in. this should keep the floor looking level. plus how often do you ever have people sitting in the back seat of one of these anyways. its a bit cramped LOL.

you can use 2" tubing without it coming thru the floor if you do one of 2 things, you either overlap it so it sticks lower than the framerail at the back, or you cut 1/2" out of it on its top side so it just butts to the floor at that spot. both things i think make your install weaker than it should be.

this is why i kept the tubing boxed as far back as i could before opening the top to fit against the rear framerails. this pic i attached shows how i opened up the rear framerail just behind the floorpan for the connector.
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Very nice! Thanks for the picture. :glasses7:

I think I'll have to section the tubing. I'll just cut a strip out of it and re-weld it, so it reduces the overall height but keeps it boxed. It'll reduce the torsional strength a little because of the reduction in cross section for that part of the tube, but I think it will still be stronger than the open type that weld to the floor to box them.
 
you can go 1&1/2" x 3" box tubing and clear the floor without cutting the top of it for the floor pan area
 
moparmat2000 said:
you can go 1&1/2" x 3" box tubing and clear the floor without cutting the top of it for the floor pan area
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Yeah I may need to do some homework on my class restrictions. I'd really prefer to use the 2x3" tubing. And then of course I'd have to check the actual interference on my Duster, since we all know these cars have some variation. Especially talking about a '67 Barracuda and a '74 Duster.

**Edit**

The more I look at the SCCA classes, the more I realize that with the other mods I'm planning for the car I'll probably end up in a higher class than just the frame connectors will put me in anyway. Eh. Its not like I want it to be a competitive car, just a "for fun" thing anyway. The rims and tires I want to run alone bump me up a few classes.
 
the floor pan and transmission crossmember in my 67 cuda is out of a 74 dart parts car. it had a 110" wheelbase same as your duster. my cuda is 108" wheelbase. i cut and seamed it together with my original floor pan at the back. otherwise they are the same underneath. the additional length is aft of the rear footwell where the inner floor pan boxes together at the start of the rear framerails, this is where i made the seam come together in mine. view my photos by my profile, i have a little slide show on how far i took it apart.

chassis wise they are identical except for the wheelbase from 67 to 76. im willing to bet my body rotisserie mounts im working on making will bolt in at the front and rear of your duster in the same place as my cuda does once you pull the bumpers and bumper mounts off. Ditto for dodge dart and valiant
 
moparmat2000 said:
you can go 1&1/2" x 3" box tubing and clear the floor without cutting the top of it for the floor pan area
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Yessir! That's what I did on mine. Did a plate on the front, opened them up and slid them over the rear rails a good chunk, pushed them up tight to the floor pans and welded them in. Completely different car!!!:burnout:
 
Nice work !! I used 2x3 and coped them to fit the floor,I didn't want to cut the rear pans, i welded some pipe through the drivers side for the ebrake cable, It worked well for my car.
 

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66 Dartman said:
Nice work !! I used 2x3 and coped them to fit the floor,I didn't want to cut the rear pans, i welded some pipe through the drivers side for the ebrake cable, It worked well for my car.
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Nice! :thumbup:

Are those turned so the 2" side is the top and bottom?

I think if the 3" side forms the top and bottom it slides over the rear frame better. Plus, less to cut out if you want to keep if from hitting the floor.
 
72bluNblu said:
Nice! :thumbup:

Are those turned so the 2" side is the top and bottom?

I think if the 3" side forms the top and bottom it slides over the rear frame better. Plus, less to cut out if you want to keep if from hitting the floor.
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I don't want to high jack the thread, But yes they butt to the rear rails and over lap on the bottom and top flanges.
 

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I was replacing the floor pan on my 68 2dr sedan and figured since the frame was open I could drop the 2x3 into the front and rear frames. I had to cut a small V on both sides of the 2x3 and bend it to close the gap then weld it, because of the offset from front to back. Then I welded the new floor in. I did have to cut the back pan so the tube does stick up through the floorboard. If any of y'all are replacing the floor boards, there is something to think about.
This is a good thread. Just in time too, because I need to weld a subframe in my 68 2dr hard top. Thanks Moparmat..good job.
Dartman, nice job and man did you work hard to do that. Did you torch cut that?

I don't know what everyones cutting with, but if you get some of the 4 1/2 cut off wheels and put them on an angle grinder, they make short work of cutting metal. I use the ones from Harbor Freight on one of their cheap grinders. Look in your Mopar mags for a coupon for those grinders. I got five of them. sanding wheel, cup wire wheel, grinding wheel, cutoff wheel, and a knot wire wheel. Saves a lot of time not having to look for and change stuff all the time.
 
gremlin said:
I was replacing the floor pan on my 68 2dr sedan and figured since the frame was open I could drop the 2x3 into the front and rear frames. I had to cut a small V on both sides of the 2x3 and bend it to close the gap then weld it, because of the offset from front to back. Then I welded the new floor in. I did have to cut the back pan so the tube does stick up through the floorboard. If any of y'all are replacing the floor boards, there is something to think about.
This is a good thread. Just in time too, because I need to weld a subframe in my 68 2dr hard top. Thanks Moparmat..good job.
Dartman, nice job and man did you work hard to do that. Did you torch cut that?

I don't know what everyones cutting with, but if you get some of the 4 1/2 cut off wheels and put them on an angle grinder, they make short work of cutting metal. I use the ones from Harbor Freight on one of their cheap grinders. Look in your Mopar mags for a coupon for those grinders. I got five of them. sanding wheel, cup wire wheel, grinding wheel, cutoff wheel, and a knot wire wheel. Saves a lot of time not having to look for and change stuff all the time.
Click to expand...
I used a plasma cutter!
 
Yep i use the china freight angle die grinders too. Thats how i cut mine out. I buy em 2 at a time on sale. Keep cutoff mandrel in one, and a roloc disc mandrel on the other one. I have rotary file bits too, i only use these in my straight die grinder. They will kick back on you in an angle grinder.

Im glad i put this thread in, thank you for the kudos from all of you. I wasnt sure which way i was going to go with the subframe connectors so i did the floorpan first. Otherwise it would have been much easier to slot the pan and drop.it in.

I thought of doing a slotted hole and tube for the park brake cable, decided to run it on the inboard side of the frame instead. Nice work guys.

Matt
 
I really appreciate the detail and explaining what you did with the barking brake. I have mine out right now, so doing the mod you did will be easy.
Rotoy files get crazy when they grab, just like any burr tool in a hole.
Is that a HF cleco gun? I looked at them, but I wasn't sure how well they worked.
Is that the weld through galvanized spray primer where you butted up to the cross member? I have a can that I haven't tried. How well does it work?
 
Those are wing nut draw #40 clecos. You can get these at theyardstore.com about $2.50 each. They work good, the button clecos are $4.20 a dozen new. I got a box full of them. they work great for pinning stuff together to weld it. A #40 hole is small enough to weld over easily.

The weld thru ll from 3M is pricey but works well.it burns away at the weld but stays behind everywhere else, great for overlapped welds.

Glad my explanation of how i did it helps you out. You should post yours when your done.
 
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