Foreign cars

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Joe, sorry to hear about your Mopar woes. Sounds like you have had more dealer issues than product issues. As a former Mopar dealership tech I can tell you that most Mopar dealerships, from a customer's standpoint are very poorly run. The service dept. is a profit center which is geared to... you guessed it, generate profits! Customers come second. Add to this a poor technician training program and a system that's designed to part the customer from his/her money and you have a deeply engrained problem in (I believe) most American car dealerships that's very tough to change. The customer very rarely does business directly with the manufacturer. They do business with the manufacturer's representative, the dealer, who is a franchisee and a separate and independent business that doesn't always have the manufacturer's best interests at heart. Most dealers lose around 75% of their service customers to the aftermarket. Very unfortunate.

That being said, my family have ALWAYS bought Mopars. Everything from Darts, Monacos, Gran Furys, cheap little Omnis and K-cars etc., to $40k Grand Cherokees and 300s. My 3 sisters don't maintain their cars worth a damn, to the point of being abusive. My dad at least has his oil changed, but not much else. For every Mopar you've had a bad experience with, I can name at least three in my family that have gone well past 100k miles with little or no problems. Yes, we've had door handles break and other stupid stuff go bad, but don't make it sound like foreign cars have no problems. As a former employee of foreign brand dealerships, I can tell you EVERY manufacturer, bar none, has issues with their cars. The difference is how the problems get handled by the dealers, which in turn drives customer perception of quality and value.
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like i said i can only speak on my and my family experiences. and yes most of the problems were dealership issues. but guess what that dealer represents the manufacturer. it has their name plastered all over the building and they are supposed to know what they are doing. yo know how much of my time was wasted by having to take those damn vehicles back and forth to the dealer just about once a month? its freaking crazy. the problem the american manufacturers do not hold their dealers to any kind of standard. even when you call chrysler, which i did about the dealer giving us the run around on our magnum. they are like there isn't anything we can do.. i told them they should let me take it to my own place to fix and they should pay for it since the dealer didn't want to fix their mistake. chrysler said well we can't force them to do anything because we have nothing to do with them and they are privately owned. i said yea but its your name all over the signs out front and they are a direct representation of you. they did call the dealership and it did get fixed but again it had to go right back because it wasn't right and i ended up waiting 8 ours there for it to be done.. total bullshit....

chrysler and the the other so called american car companies can build the best cars in the world but if they don't revamp the dealer network they will continue to crumble. you have to treat your customers like you want their business, treat them with respect. its common sense customer relations. i can not believe these asshole don't understand that yet. the surveys that a jap company gives you to fill out get taken very seriously. its such a simple idea why can't the so called american car companies do that and actually have the dealer get a certain grade or whatever or risk losing their dealership?


and yes i agree all makes will have their problems. but bad front end parts,fuel pumps, shifters, warped rotors at under 30,000 miles? hell my 01 youta had 180,000 miles on all the original front end parts and even its original brake rotors. that baby was as tight as the day i bought it when i sold it, my current yota has all its original front end parts on it at almost 80k . that that bull **** with my dodges is just unacceptable to me.. not to mention i know something was up in the trans or converter but ofcourse they couldn't find anything. so glad we got rid of that **** box. hell i have a good friend with a 2010 srt chally... he paid like 45k for that car. 3000 miles and it had a broken valve spring, dealer didn't want to cover it under warranty. they finially fixed it only to totally miss with the valve cover gasket. that ****** was leaking so much oil on the header,exhause manifold that it looked like he was spraying for mosquitoes, has like 20k on it now and the rear hums so damn lous when its cold its annoying as hell, hums pretty good when warm too, freaking plastic trim cracking all over the car, trans already feels loose as hell (6 speed). this is on a $45k car. that is nuts. and common problems if you look at challenger talk.

and like i said my personal experience only. my three dodges were in the dealers more in one year ( for non-routine maintenance) then any of my toyotas have been in all the years i have owned them. to me thats just not right. it shouldn't be like that.. every time i have to goto the dealer is time out of my schedule. i understand **** happens and i can live with **** breaking here and there but my three new dodges were over the top. i am done with that garbage company. i'll play with my 70's-down mopars.

i'm a very loyal person. you treat me right and i will come back and spend money with you. even if at times its a little more money the somewhere else i can go. i held out going foreign for a long time but i gotta tell ya. toyota has treated me very well over the years and i will continue to buy toyota until they make my experience bad liek chrysler did. this is exactly why the OP article is the way it is. look at the garbage the big three was putting out there in the 70, and 80's. honda and toyota came in and gave the american public what they wanted, treated them right and gained loyal customers. those loyal customers had kids and passed those jap cars down to them. wow guess what those kids bought when it was time for a new car... yup another jap car because they had a good experience. it just keeps going and going like that. the big three lost generations of families because of their poor business practices. seriously, why are you going to go away from a company that has been a good experience for you over the years when you are spending $15,000 and up.
 
daredevil said:
Toyota,from the nice people who brought you Pearl Harbor.
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there is nothing jap in your house? tv,computer,appliances...etc ?? even your american cars are full of jap stuff.


besides i see plenty of vets driving jap cars. if they are ok with it then i'm ok with it..
 
My parents were diehard Mopar drivers, we had lots of them demons, to ramchargers to K-car Lebarons, with the mitsubishi motor btw. Then we bough a 20,000 dodge dynasty that ate 3 transmissions, 6 computers, among other problems with the car. WE stopped taking it to the dealership and lo and behold it hit 200k with routine maintance and replacing wear items. So it is the quality of the build, I've bought several new chryslers too 98 Dakota that stalled constantly due to a bad cam sensor, dealership told me I couldn't drive a stick, drivers mirror fell off, brake lines snapping off in a turn, bumber rusting through at 20,000 miles. Don't get me started with our 2000 neon, wipers didn;t work when delivered, should have refused the car right there. Poor build quality and customer service = needing a government bailout again...at least Lee Iacoca paid back his loans.
 
Then we bough a 20,000 dodge dynasty that ate 3 transmissions,
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oh man i forgot about those. i knew a few people that got stiffed with those cars. they never did recall those pile of *****. $1800 for a rebuild and in 3 months later its bad again...
 
duster414 said:
I guess it really irks you when foreigners buy all that grain we produce.
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Why yes, yes it does. What are we going to eat? We cant keep making all are food in to gas and selling the rest over seas. Hay prices are sky high right now because they keep selling it all to other countrys. :sign6: Now we get to pay more because other countrys cant seam to grow there own food.
 
No one should buy any foreign item ever again. Everything should be produced here. If we don't make it then tool up and start making it.

F foreign cars. F outsourcing. Buy American, Hire American, Produce American.

FN Toyotas and Hyaunadais. I simply dont give a crap about foreign products F them! We do not need foreign products. What we need, is to tool up and make our own products !

Yea, it will take time and lots of effort. Well WWII took lots of effort too.

What is amazing is our consumer habits drive it all. Our country is so much more concerned with consuming plastic electronic crap than sustaining US industry.

Those fn foreign companies are here in our country and we are working for them.

Foreigners own our country! Absolutely FN pathetic.

We are a wasteland of imported consumer junk that lasts us 5 years then turns into land fill and pseudo recycle = (out of sight out of mind, gimme a new one).


Work = yield.

We need all USA owned companies with USA workers creating USA products. Ever single step that we all take towards that goal will be an improvement in this countries productivity and strength.


We need to ween ourselves from sucking off the imported tit! It is bringing us to our knees..
 
We do not need foreign products.
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we sure do need those products. if we didn't have those foreign products as competition then american cars ( if there is a such thing anymore) would the same garbage they were producing in the 70's. pure junk. the only reason the big three improved their product over the years was because people had a choice and they where forced to by the competition. we would all be doomed if these american companies didn't have the competition..
 
hemitheus said:
really? when the smallest margin of profit goes to manufacturing. But its OK its just the US economy amidst one of the largest recessions in history. For our economy to thrive the flow of cash must stay in the hands of americans.

when you buy a foreign car the majority of that money goes overseas even when the care is "made in the USA"

Sorry, I am just WAY too patriotic for that.

and to be honest i dont care which foreign people buy what cars.
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Where was your computer made? How about your TV or your phone?
 
T-Fish said:
Where was your computer made? How about your TV or your phone?
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My iPhone, computer and TV's are all made in China

My 1971 and 72 Swingers at Hamhamck, Mi.
My 1994 Ford Chateau Club Wagon: Avon Lake, Ohio
My 1998 and 2006 Saturns: Spring Hill, Tenn.
My 2000 Silverado: Flint, Mi.
My 2007 Cummins Ram; Fenton, Mo.
My 2008 GMC Sierra: Mexico
My 2010 Cummins Ram: Warren, Mi.
 
Talk about Wasabi cars are the only option and US cars just dont provide for the econo class?

Ford focus. My bud got one last year in Southern Indiana for 3k. 60K mileage. Great condition. 07. Light hail damage (I couldn't even tell it was hail damaged). Gets over 30mpg. cd player, power windows, AC blows cold. He has 3 kids. They ride in the back seat raising hell all the way to friggin chuckey cheese and back.

Late 70s? In 1979 we bought a 1980 Chevy Citation coupe (not hatchback). 4 speed. FWD. for 4900.00 new from the dealer. Lasted 185k. Got 26 - 33mpg actual (best was freeway). Was in mint condition until I started driving it @ 150K in 1991. I literally drove it off several cliffs and ravines, thru fields for several years at wide open throttle w/o changing the oil nor checking it. It was double the durability of any foreign car of that time period. We lived on miles of gravel roads in the country and the car was completely solid in all aspects.
A friggin little foreign car would have been done in minutes I GUARANTEE. I have proved it several times. Its called "..testing the rear end for stress factors". (Hunter S. Thomson)

Our family friend had a 70s honda civic or similar. Its suspension was slopped out in less than 10 years. Broke down constantly. I had a 73 toyota corona. Was toast @100k. I bought it for 50 bucks cause it was sitting in a field. It still ran but was just worn slop out in all directions from typical country roads. I killed it in less than a few months. I had a 1984 honda accord. 100% worn out Junk. Friend had a 82 honda. 100 % Junk.

Those old foreign cars would not hold up to anything other than mild highway driving. You drive it down a country road its whole life and see what happens. ROI = Nil. Those little muffler bearings made out of pot metal would simply disintegrate and rot into the earth.

This is why American cars were built heavier. We have what is called country living and it makes up 79 % of our great nation. City slickers just think bicycle tires and weed eater motors will get you buy.
Well it will, when you live in a honeycomb built for human storage where your bicycle tires roll on marshmallows all day long. Out in the remaining 80% of this nation you need a vehicle designed to last you 15 years while navigating around more than just a homeless encampment on the street corner and a couple speed bumps to get to the coffee shop and back from costco.

We have an 07 focus econo car too. 6 disc changer, factory, air, steering, brakes, turn signal, donut tires. It has 40k on it. Gets 28 - 36 mpg actual. There is no shortage of little American cars, although it is probably not more than 50 % American parts. I will damd right buy one that says Ford over one that says Honda.

No reason to buy a honda or a toyota or a hyuantia or a kia, nor mercedes, nor bmw in this country. Ever. Put a period on that!

Now, If'n I were a travelin around yonder european country side, sure why not buy or drive some sort of volks turbo mercedes audi hy-breed solar powered over engineered 9 speed transmission suv. I see nothing wrong with supporting your local economy, where ever that may be.

Problem is, no one here is doing it. Dang it.
 
Revhendo said:
I totally understand and support what you are saying. I'm just not convinced the concept is sound enough to reach the goal you desire.
Would buying only American cars create more jobs here in the US and turn the economy around? Sure, if you can guarantee that the major US manufacturers would quit outsourcing jobs to places outside our borders for lower costs and higher profits. Then get the unions to follow along and not line their pockets on the backs of their members or hold out on an agreement until it breaks the company. The feds and states have a role in this also.
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I agree, these are also part of the problem. The UAW is one of the biggest problems. but like anything, there is never and easy 1 step solution.
 
Rice Nuker said:
No one should buy any foreign item ever again. Everything should be produced here. If we don't make it then tool up and start making it.

F foreign cars. F outsourcing. Buy American, Hire American, Produce American.

FN Toyotas and Hyaunadais. I simply dont give a crap about foreign products F them! We do not need foreign products. What we need, is to tool up and make our own products !

Yea, it will take time and lots of effort. Well WWII took lots of effort too.

What is amazing is our consumer habits drive it all. Our country is so much more concerned with consuming plastic electronic crap than sustaining US industry.

Those fn foreign companies are here in our country and we are working for them.

Foreigners own our country! Absolutely FN pathetic.

We are a wasteland of imported consumer junk that lasts us 5 years then turns into land fill and pseudo recycle = (out of sight out of mind, gimme a new one).


Work = yield.

We need all USA owned companies with USA workers creating USA products. Ever single step that we all take towards that goal will be an improvement in this countries productivity and strength.


We need to ween ourselves from sucking off the imported tit! It is bringing us to our knees..
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X2 YES SIR.... This country was at its GREATEST when everything was made here. The american industry was the heart and soul of this nation and it was raped by corporate greed, outsourcing, importing.
 
T-Fish said:
Where was your computer made? How about your TV or your phone?
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Everything that is available in this world that is produced domestically, I buy. If a product isnt made by an american company i have little choice.... but shouldnt everything be?
 
Rice Nuker said:
Those old foreign cars would not hold up to anything other than mild highway driving. You drive it down a country road its whole life and see what happens. ROI = Nil. Those little muffler bearings made out of pot metal would simply disintegrate and rot into the earth.
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This I have to disagree with. European cars are actually more suited to driving twisty country side roads. That's why they always blew up on the highway :) Have you ever seen the roads in Europe? Thats all they were is small windy country roads, and that is exactly why they were built as nimble and small as they were.
 
abodyjoe said:
we sure do need those products. if we didn't have those foreign products as competition then american cars ( if there is a such thing anymore) would the same garbage they were producing in the 70's. pure junk. the only reason the big three improved their product over the years was because people had a choice and they where forced to by the competition. we would all be doomed if these american companies didn't have the competition..
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Joe I highly respect you. You REALLY know your stuff. but here, i have to disagree. american cars before the import boom of the 70's were historically some of the best built cars in the world. ESPECIALLY Mopars. Then, the Big 3 were the only ones in the mix, except the hippies that bought VW's. And everyone knows hippies were the catalyst that destroyed america. <---- a joke.
 
hemitheus said:
Joe I highly respect you. You REALLY know your stuff. but here, i have to disagree. american cars before the import boom of the 70's were historically some of the best built cars in the world. ESPECIALLY Mopars. Then, the Big 3 were the only ones in the mix, except the hippies that bought VW's. And everyone knows hippies were the catalyst that destroyed america. <---- a joke.
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then what happened to the big three from the during the 70's to the late 80's??? the big three was trying to shove what they wanted down our throats. toyota and honda gave the public what they wanted. the big three didn't start improving their garbage till the late 80's early 90's. the only reason the big three cars are improved is because they saw their sale slip because of the competition...
 
hemitheus said:
Everything that is available in this world that is produced domestically, I buy. If a product isnt made by an american company i have little choice.... but shouldnt everything be?
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I'm with you Hemi, But I guess if we paid our employees pennies on the dollar, we could build **** as well...
 
abodyjoe said:
then what happened to the big three from the during the 70's to the late 80's??? the big three was trying to shove what they wanted down our throats. toyota and honda gave the public what they wanted. the big three didn't start improving their garbage till the late 80's early 90's. the only reason the big three cars are improved is because they saw their sale slip because of the competition...
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What happened is government regulation. Have you noticed that the more the government has dictated to car companies what is and is not acceptable the worse & costlier cars have become?

I understand that there are certain safety and environmental concerns but to me, IMHO, thats what happened. The only reason MaMopar dumped the slant was they had a harder time each year meeting emission standards, otherwise they may STILL be in cars.
 
abodyjoe said:
we sure do need those products. if we didn't have those foreign products as competition then american cars ( if there is a such thing anymore) would the same garbage they were producing in the 70's. pure junk. the only reason the big three improved their product over the years was because people had a choice and they where forced to by the competition. we would all be doomed if these american companies didn't have the competition..
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Funny how we ever made it to the 70s. I guess until all those quality foreign products flooded our markets, we just had junk US products and life was just terrible. I mean I hate how an Electrolux vacuum cleaner lasted 35 years and now those dirt devils made in china last 4.

Now we are at the pinnacle of our existence. Because of foreign auto influence, American cars last way longer than they ever did. Right?

Now US cars last 20 years rather than 10. Or do they still last the same duration (10) years but just have 10 fold the complexity and 10x price? How have we benefited from foreign autos again? How long is one of them Nissan Titans going to last? Oh they are going to out last us all.

The only thing that has happened is the population is ten times higher, cars cost ten times more, and people drive twice as far as they used to. Nothing else changed. Everything that has changed is simply relative to population increase. Oh except US factories are mostly overseas now and foreigners own half our country. Everyone I know who worked in a factory, lost their job at every factory across the country. Most companies went bankrupt and couldn't pay the retirement they had accrued for 20 years. Great. Progress is really good.

The mentality that we need all this foreign influence is the same mental platform encouraging us to lose dedication to our countries' productivity.


The concept of buy American has volumes of meaning pointing towards bringing this country to a higher level of achievement, productivity, sustenance and continuity.

So, buy American.
 
67Dart440GT said:
This I have to disagree with. European cars are actually more suited to driving twisty country side roads. That's why they always blew up on the highway :) Have you ever seen the roads in Europe? Thats all they were is small windy country roads, and that is exactly why they were built as nimble and small as they were.
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Well, I was referring to gravel roads in the hills of this country. The gravel roads beat the ever loving hell out of light weight cars.
All those sintered muffler bearings will disintegrate.

A 72 Galaxie will last for ever, 20 + years on gravel roads. My friend had one still going strong is the 90s so, thats a good 20 years. All factory and just basic maintenance. Sombich would do 120 on a straight stretch of gravel. Got a solid 12 mpg fully loaded to the max spitting gravel like dual rooster tails off a jet boat, would carry 6 passengers, gallons of alcohol and an extra long block and transmission in the trunk, safe as a tank. Good luck with that on a little euro car. I have seen 60s and 70s US cars bounced off boulders at 50 miles per hour, high centered on 12 foot rock piles, run thru ditches and down fence posts, took out miles of highway signs, jumped off 10 foot cliffs and onto an adjacent gravel road, all with zero mechanical maladies and minimal cosmetic issues as a result.

Okay, one time, one time, a rock went thru a radiator and that 6 foot snow man we hit at 65 mph cracked the windshield pretty good and removed my windshield wipers.

I just dont understand where this concept that US cars were not built well comes from. They were absolutely indestructible!
 
Funny how we ever made it to the 70s. I guess until all those quality foreign products flooded our markets, we just had junk US products and life was just terrible. I mean I hate how an Electrolux vacuum cleaner lasted 35 years and now those dirt devils made in china last 4.
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totally different world my man.. things changed. companies stopped looking at 20 year returns and wanted instant returns..
 
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