Fork too far back?

[HotRod777]

Lots of detail but I’ll try to make this the short short version. I have a 66 Dart that was a slant/auto that was converted to a slant/overdrive by a prior owner. The car is drivable but the clutch isn’t “right”. I was told it has a 10” (for the 9.5 flywheel) B&B set from Brewers as well as a pivot and fork from them as well. The bell is aluminum. The issue I have is not enough travel. To get into 1st and Rev once warmed up without grinding pretty bad I have to have the adjuster already pushing pretty hard on the fork in order to get the needed travel... and at that point it’s barely enough. The pedals are slant pedals with the 5 1/4” pin spacing...
I have stuff apart right now and am going to lengthen the pedal arm to 5 7/8”. I also plan to add the 3/4” to the adjuster rod side of the Z bar eccentric to add travel ratio. Other then that the Z bar sits parallel and level and has good split bushings. Now we come to the link I included. The fork is already way past parallel before It even touch’s the TO to the fingers. TO is on both clips correctly. Where/when it touches seems wrong to me. The fork is so far back once it starts to engage it’s loosing travel due to the angle. When the car is adjusted to be drivable drivable the fork has about 3/8” left at the back of the window when the clutch finally releases so it’s not bottoming out. And, if I set the TO with 3/16 clearance the car will drag forward with the clutch fully depressed on the floor. I’m hoping my lengthening of the pedal arm and the z bar arm get me a faster/further ratio... But I’m still concerned with the fork/TO...
Is there a taller pivot?
Is there a taller TO bearing?
Should I try spacing the PP away from the flywheel with washers?

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[toolmanmike]

Call brewers and tell them your combination. The 10" clutch on a 9 1/2" flywheel is ok. It works well but your aluminum bell housing is designed for a 10 1/2 and 11" flywheel/clutch set up and you have a mis-match of parts. They should be able to help you. This ain't their first rodeo. LOL

 

[HotRod777]

Call brewers and tell them your combination. The 10" clutch on a 9 1/2" flywheel is ok. It works well but your aluminum bell housing is designed for a 10 1/2 and 11" flywheel/clutch set up and you have a mis-match of parts. They should be able to help you. This ain't their first rodeo. LOL

What you just said here about the bigger flywheel and thus bigger Bell set off a whole cascade of thoughts. I’m the 3rd owner of this car in the past 10 years that has been trying to solve this clutch issue. I just had an ah-ha! moment. All along we had been trying to retro-fit the OD 833 to the slant.
Now, all of a sudden I don’t think it’s an overdrive. ALL OD’s have the one lever flipped, correct? Well look at mine. I think the original swapper either didn’t know what to look for or he was lied to on what it was. I’ve only had the car for 5 days and think I just solved a 10 year long problem.
SO... I think all I need is the standard 9.5” bell fork from brewers.
The fork I have in there measure just shy of 11”. The stock slant fork they list is 10.5” and when you look at the photos of both the standard slant fork has a much steeper/higher finger ridge for the TOB. That would push the TOB closer to the PP at rest... hopefully solving my problem. That would also explain why the “retro fit” Z bar that I have that is for swapping in the bigger bell requires almost 1.5” spacers on the bell pivot bracket. The z bar I have is 6.5” but the stock slant 8” one looks like it would fit right in not using my spacers. (The spacers were in the car when I got it... I’m just trying to sort out what’s what before throwing a bunch of money at parts not being sure they will be correct.

The question of the day, is it possible to get the fork off and back onto the TOB with the tranny still in the car just I’m using the inspection opening and the fork opening???

 

[toolmanmike]

What you just said here about the bigger flywheel and thus bigger Bell set off a whole cascade of thoughts. I’m the 3rd owner of this car in the past 10 years that has been trying to solve this clutch issue. I just had an ah-ha! moment. All along we had been trying to retro-fit the OD 833 to the slant.
Now, all of a sudden I don’t think it’s an overdrive. ALL OD’s have the one lever flipped, correct? Well look at mine. I think the original swapper either didn’t know what to look for or he was lied to on what it was. I’ve only had the car for 5 days and think I just solved a 10 year long problem.
SO... I think all I need is the standard 9.5” bell fork from brewers.
The fork I have in there measure just shy of 11”. The stock slant fork they list is 10.5” and when you look at the photos of both the standard slant fork has a much steeper/higher finger ridge for the TOB. That would push the TOB closer to the PP at rest... hopefully solving my problem. That would also explain why the “retro fit” Z bar that I have that is for swapping in the bigger bell requires almost 1.5” spacers on the bell pivot bracket. The z bar I have is 6.5” but the stock slant 8” one looks like it would fit right in not using my spacers. (The spacers were in the car when I got it... I’m just trying to sort out what’s what before throwing a bunch of money at parts not being sure they will be correct.

The question of the day, is it possible to get the fork off and back onto the TOB with the tranny still in the car just I’m using the inspection opening and the fork opening???

View attachment 1715546446

View attachment 1715546447

Doesn't look like a o/d to me. Yes you should be able to change the fork in the car. Good luck. I hope that's the problem.

 

[HotRod777]

Well I got it “fixed”... Here is what I did and what worked and what didn’t work. I got a different fork from Brewers, one what is for a standard non-overdrive unit. That fork snapped right in and set much farther forward in the window. I though I had it licked. I set everything back up, 1/8” TO clearance, started the car and still... grrriiinnndddd into 1st or reverse with the clutch on the floor.
My last resort was an idea from another thread here I found. I got 6 matching 5/16 washers, they were .060 thick. I loosened the pressure plate bolts gradually while rotating to each one... once it was pulled away enough I took out 1 bolt at a time and slide in a washer. After all 6 were in and everything tightened/ adjusted... BINGO! Tranny stops Spinning within 3 seconds after depressing the clutch and no grind at all in any gear... and while driving it shifts like butter... it even is easier to get back into 1st after coming to a stop after driving.
A couple notes in case this might help someone else:
-Per the other thread I found I mic’ed my friction disk. Mine measured .375 and the other thread said the original disk would have been .305. With the thicker disk the PP fingers seemed to already be levered 1/2 way down compressing over the thicker disk.
-You need to grind the washers so they have a flat side (I ground about half of the one side of the washer) so the washer does not rub the friction disk. (I was told my car has brewers 10” disk which caused the disk to be close to the PP bolts, requiring this grinding)

This worked for me, no idea if it will work for anyone else, proceed with caution, your mileage may vary.

 

[pomonamissel]

my od a833 linkage has this look , its home made linkage for a long shaft a833 in an a body , and i have clutch forks for a bodies if you need to change out your . i also have factory disc brake setups in the 4'' small bolt circle with rebuilt calipers .

 

[/6 Matt]

Call brewers and tell them your combination. The 10" clutch on a 9 1/2" flywheel is ok. It works well but your aluminum bell housing is designed for a 10 1/2 and 11" flywheel/clutch set up and you have a mis-match of parts. They should be able to help you. This ain't their first rodeo. LOL

They don't make a 10-1/2 and 11 " combo for slant sixes. Except for maybe the granny gear 4 speed apps in trucks, but thats a different tranny and bellhousing that won't fit in a car.

Frankly, you need to get rid of that 10" bb unit and either step down to a 9 inch or have your flywheel redrilled for a 10" plate from the ford 4.0 liter. The 10 inch bb has a tendency to develope stress cracks around the flange where it bolts to the flywheel and they eventually explode at high rpm.