Front clutch pack questions

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Thrasher

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I'm currently rebuilding a 727, just wondering how many springs would be appropriate for a 5 to 1 kickdown lever and a mild shift kit?? When I cracked it open, I can see it has 9 springs stock.
 
12 springs is what I always put in them an they seem to work good. Also make sure you use a restrictor in the front clutch apply port or you may have shift overlap. What shift kit do you have? Reason I ask is I've seen alot of problems with B&M, TCI, Mopar Perf., and Turbo Action kits with inconsistency. I will only use a Trans-Go kit. Their the only kit I never have trouble with.
 
I got this Mopar perf all 727 on the right here: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopar1.html

I went with this one because it seems like it would be appropriate for my engine, it's only a hopped up 360, so I'm only getting probably in the neighborhood of 300-320 horses, nothing too crazy.

A front clutch apply port restrictor? I'm a bit new at this stuff so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about:dontknow:
 
The restrictor only comes with some shift kits. It installs in the main case where the valve body feeds the front clutch pack. I doubt it came with your shift kit. I haven't bought a Mopar perf. kit for over 10 yrs. Back then it didn't have the restrictor. I hope that Mopar perf. kit works ok for you. The first and only one I bought caused sever overlap from 1st to 2nd. When the back wheels were jacked up and I held the throttle steady at 30 mph in first gear then manually shifted to 2nd. the wheels all most completely stopped before it went into 2nd. What was happening was the 2nd gear band applied before the low band released. I had to drive my truck for work and it took me 3 weeks to get around to tearing back into it. When I did drop the pan there was a whole bunch of fried clutch material in the pan. If I would have left it in there it would have trashed my trans. in no time. I called Turbo Action who made the kit for Mopar (at least they did back then, Not sure who makes them now) and the guy said they had some problems with some doing that but others worked ok. He thought it was because Mopar used different spring rates in some valve bodies and their kit was designed around a particular one and the others with different rates would not work correctly. I said so you sell these anyway even knowing they only work on about half of the transmissions. He sheepishly said yes because they haven't really had many complaints. I finally took it out and designed my own kit from info I found on the web and by studying the flow pattern in the factory serv. manual. That was before I knew about Trans-Go. I have never had a problem with a trans-go kit because they supply all springs that control virtually every thing about the shifting. Yours may work ok. It seems they work ok in some trans. but not in others. I wish you the best.
 
fishy68 said:
The first and only one I bought caused severe overlap from 1st to 2nd. When the back wheels were jacked up and I held the throttle steady at 30 mph in first gear then manually shifted to 2nd. the wheels all most completely stopped before it went into 2nd. What was happening was the 2nd gear band applied before the low band released. I had to drive my truck for work and it took me 3 weeks to get around to tearing back into it. When I did drop the pan there was a whole bunch of fried clutch material in the pan.
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Holy ****! Big thanks for all the info man. Hopefully the added springs and the better kickdown lever will help avoid this problem... if not, maybe a Trans-Go shift kit will be on my next order :cussing:
 
Thrasher said:
and the better kickdown lever will help avoid this problem...
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The 5:1 kick down lever will increase you chances of having overlap on the 2-3 shift as the 2nd gear band stays on longer with the 5:1 lever. The whole idea is to get the 2nd gear band off sooner, and delay high gear clutch engaugement slightly. I don't use 5:1 levers, or orifice restrictors.
 
Duster346 said:
The 5:1 kick down lever will increase you chances of having overlap on the 2-3 shift as the 2nd gear band stays on longer with the 5:1 lever. The whole idea is to get the 2nd gear band off sooner, and delay high gear clutch engaugement slightly. I don't use 5:1 levers, or orifice restrictors.
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Chris good to see you on the board. Haven't seen you for ages.

I've heard alot of guys say stay away from the 5.0 lever but it wasn't until after I did my trans. and used one. I also used 12 springs and an orifice restrictor and it seems to work real good. If it has any overlap I can't feel it and I dropped the pan after about 800 miles and no sign of clutch material. What's your recipe for the best combo using a factory valve body with a trans-go kit? What lever do you use and how many springs? Do you do anything else to keep overlap down?

Thanks, Tracy

Thrasher I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. I figured this would help both of us.
 
Thanks, Tracy. Glad to be back on here. I've been pretty busy at the shop for the last 3 years. I hope to chime in more often in the future.

I agree with everything you said about the shift kits, I also like TransGo the best. You're good with the restrictor with the trans-go kit, as that is what they recommend with the kit. With the valve bodies we use, we use a 4.2 or 3.8 lever and install 15 return springs, and use the early style second gear servo with both springs to prevent overlap. By design it's (overlap) a big problem with this transmission and people may not even know it's in two gears at once for a brief moment.
 
Duster346 said:
Thanks, Tracy. Glad to be back on here. I've been pretty busy at the shop for the last 3 years. I hope to chime in more often in the future.

I agree with everything you said about the shift kits, I also like TransGo the best. You're good with the restrictor with the trans-go kit, as that is what they recommend with the kit. With the valve bodies we use, we use a 4.2 or 3.8 lever and install 15 return springs, and use the early style second gear servo with both springs to prevent overlap. By design it's (overlap) a big problem with this transmission and people may not even know it's in two gears at once for a brief moment.
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Thanks for the info Chris. I can see what your saying about a little overlap is pretty much impossible to feel even for somebody that works on them all the time.

And I know how that being busy is. We went on a 3 day road trip and just got back a few hrs ago. Now I'll have to work twice as hard to get caught back up.
 
Great info guys, keep it up. I installed the kit that came with the TCI master rebuild kit and IIRC, it was the Transgo but I'll have to double check.

Thank's to both of you for all the help!
 
I almost have my 727 back together with a little help from fishy68 and I went with the transgo 1 kit and I was very happy with the kit. I installed a 4.2 lever and my tranny already had 12 springs in it so I am really hoping all is well when it goes back in the truck. Not looking for drag racing performance but this truck will see some trail time so I didn't spare any expense. thanks again fishy68
 
4wd it's an 86' w150. almost have the 318 rebuilt as well :)
 
dodgefreak8 said:
4wd it's an 86' w150. almost have the 318 rebuilt as well :)
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Right on! I got '74 AW100 with a '72 grill many other mods. Just about done, but still working on the body and getting the suspension right. This will be the race tow truck and fishing/camping spot finder.:)
 
I did a TransGo kit in my old Charger, manual shift version and it worked very well. Since my car is strictly a race car I just use a T/A tranzbrake valvebody.

I did install a TransGo kit in my new 2500 diesel truck with the 48RE trans and it was terrible. It would down shift hard into 2nd at 25 MPH, shift hunt at light throttle around 30 mph between 2nd and 3rd and the overlap on the 2 - 3 shift would nearly bang my head on the steering wheel. Absolutely terrible.

I ended up removing most of the kit just leaving the switch valve, and O/D mods and the PR spring in. Of course I couldn't remove the pin installed in the valve body that blocked a port on the part throttle kickdown portion so I had to drill another hole in the valve body. Now I'm not sure if it's not a large enough hole or if it's just partially blocked but now when I do a full throttle or near full throttle kickdown it won't upshift unless I let off the accelerator.

Looks like I'll have to buy a new valvebody now.

TransGo? Never again.

BTW just in case you are wondering I've been a Chrysler Tech for 33 years, I do everything on Chrysler vehicles including transmissions. I was extremely careful and I'm very familiar with these transmissions and valve bodies.
 
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