Badart
Senior Member
Well that sucks about the tire clearance. I may have to come up with something that runs inside of the engine bay.
Front sub frame reinforcement
- Thread starter Martythetrimmer
- Start date
-
Well that sucks about the tire clearance. I may have to come up with something that runs inside of the engine bay.
Hey 71dusterdan, what's the dimension from the inner fender to the outside of the XV tube? It looks like it runs parallel to the inner fender - correct?
Thanks!
Robbie2734
Lambcharger
I finally got these loaded, here's how I tightened the front end up. It did make a difference but isn't as involved nor as strong.
71dusterdan
Well-Known Member
Yeah my tubes run pretty much parralel and then make a hard bend into the shocktower. Again dont quote me, I have not had a tire up there to confirm anything. The best I could do right now is throw my Kframe up there and try my rear tires, which are 275/40/17's on a 9"rim with 5" backspace. I still may do that. If I were to do it all over again, and I may...I would make that xv bar straight, and run it direct. I also welded up kframe with a ton more spotwelds and gussetting to the steering box mount . I also think the bars that were rollcage bars shown earlier may be a pretty good option.
Martythetrimmer
Well-Known Member
View attachment XV%20Inner%20fender_.jpg
I notice a few you you refer to these as XV bars, is that just a common name for them or are they manufactured under that name? Is this a typical way of stabalising the front end as the end result would be the same as my original post but it takes up a lot more room! A straight bar back against the inner guard would be stronger and give more tyre clearance. With the shock towers welded to the inner guards and maybe gusets to reinforce the shock towers would the load really be too much for the towers. I'm running an all alloy V6 so not a lot of wieght over the front end. I'm just trying to stop the flex that allways cracks the A pillar in 1962 Plymouth Valiants, I havn't seen one without cracks and this movement accounts for that happening. I havn't seen anybody in Australia, other than drag cars, reinforce thier front end so your posts have been of great interest, thanks guys!
Marty
I notice a few you you refer to these as XV bars, is that just a common name for them or are they manufactured under that name? Is this a typical way of stabalising the front end as the end result would be the same as my original post but it takes up a lot more room! A straight bar back against the inner guard would be stronger and give more tyre clearance. With the shock towers welded to the inner guards and maybe gusets to reinforce the shock towers would the load really be too much for the towers. I'm running an all alloy V6 so not a lot of wieght over the front end. I'm just trying to stop the flex that allways cracks the A pillar in 1962 Plymouth Valiants, I havn't seen one without cracks and this movement accounts for that happening. I havn't seen anybody in Australia, other than drag cars, reinforce thier front end so your posts have been of great interest, thanks guys!
Marty
71dusterdan
Well-Known Member
Marty, those bars seemed to 1st show up in the publics eye, a few years ago. A company called XV motorsports got real scientific attempting to improve the suspension of E and B bodies. They had OE quality chassis machines and the whole 9 yards. Those bars were part of thier package, along with a tubular lower core support that tied the front rails together. As for your bars, I would still recommend running a bar straight rather than the curved bar, also run it tighter to the top of the inner fenderwell.
Henry1962s
Active Member
Marty,
was following this thread closely as when lifting my s on rotisorary I noticed the flex where you have indicated. Belive it or not it severly reduced once chassis connectors were installed but still apparent. Check out my take on the XV ones. I dont like how the XV ones protrude into the wheel section, I think this style would still offer the support you are after. It picks up the double skin section on firewall and you would run a good bead along the top of the shock tower. Just need to see what the engineer says about them..
was following this thread closely as when lifting my s on rotisorary I noticed the flex where you have indicated. Belive it or not it severly reduced once chassis connectors were installed but still apparent. Check out my take on the XV ones. I dont like how the XV ones protrude into the wheel section, I think this style would still offer the support you are after. It picks up the double skin section on firewall and you would run a good bead along the top of the shock tower. Just need to see what the engineer says about them..
rapidtransitric
LX/LC platform a body swap pioneer
very nice. better tire clearance
71dusterdan
Well-Known Member
That is a nice set up. Kinda curious as to how you are going to strengthen the shock towers to handle the load, and what you will do for shock mounting. However I do like the concept, and think you may be on to something. I still havent gotten around to tossing my kframe back on and mounting my rear tires (275/40/17) up front for fitment tests. I have decided once my car comes back from its hot tank dip, bath...I am going to stitch weld all the seams, and add torque boxes to it. Already has through the floor subframe connectors! Are we really just overkilling this issue? How many members have been autocrossing thier cars and discovered flex that was an issue?????:burnout:
Henry1962s
Active Member
There is no fouling on the shocks, if you look closely the hole for the upper shock point is 2 inches below the tube.
I am putting a strengthening plate on the lower tower section to tie the upper arm points in a bit better and reweld them all as very average from factory.
Have a mate running a hot s with small block stroker and he is having trouble with flex through the front frame, has caused cracked screen and kinks in the front inner gaurds. Not to keen on this happening.
I am putting a strengthening plate on the lower tower section to tie the upper arm points in a bit better and reweld them all as very average from factory.
Have a mate running a hot s with small block stroker and he is having trouble with flex through the front frame, has caused cracked screen and kinks in the front inner gaurds. Not to keen on this happening.
rapidtransitric
LX/LC platform a body swap pioneer
crw148
Member
The design of the tube from the tire well front wall to the front frame will interfere with a 245/45-17 tire with a 5 inch back space wheel. I wasted a day and welded plate that is useless. I'm annoyed. Hope others avoid this design if they plan on running a lowered A-body with larger tires.
I'll be relocating the tubes to the inside of the engine compartment.
I'll be relocating the tubes to the inside of the engine compartment.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
Im in the same boat. I have the RMS alterkation and 17x8 with 5.75" backspace, tires are 245/45/17's, (25.68" tall) With the bar in place, I have about 2 inches of travel from the tube and the tire at ride height....that will definitely hit...gotta think of something else to do..
68dodge
Well-Known Member
Marty,
was following this thread closely as when lifting my s on rotisorary I noticed the flex where you have indicated. Belive it or not it severly reduced once chassis connectors were installed but still apparent. Check out my take on the XV ones. I dont like how the XV ones protrude into the wheel section, I think this style would still offer the support you are after. It picks up the double skin section on firewall and you would run a good bead along the top of the shock tower. Just need to see what the engineer says about them..
Henry1962s, your bars look great, now what if you keep going forward like a "J" bar staying close like you have it to the inner fender and weld to the side of the frame rail right before the bumper mounts? You would still have tire clearance.
ardentindustries
Well-Known Member
Marty,
was following this thread closely as when lifting my s on rotisorary I noticed the flex where you have indicated. Belive it or not it severly reduced once chassis connectors were installed but still apparent. Check out my take on the XV ones. I dont like how the XV ones protrude into the wheel section, I think this style would still offer the support you are after. It picks up the double skin section on firewall and you would run a good bead along the top of the shock tower. Just need to see what the engineer says about them..
When speaking about tire clearance, this design is the best I have seen so far. I personally am not a fan of doing any welding along the length of a piece of tube...just dont like the look. However, as mentioned above my post, if this tube continued towards the front and came to dead end into the front frame, I think it would be an excellent piece. I may have to get my tubing bender out and start playing.
As for the front flex...I noticed it in a very non-scientific way just yesterday. Was mocking things up for my strut rods, and jacked the car up. I placed stands under the front frame rails, just in front of the torsion bar crossmember. As I let the jack down, I thought I had misplaced the stands, because the front of the car just kept going down. So...I double checked the stands then did it again. It was simply the front subframe flexing. It was amazing. It had to have dropped at least 2-3" after the jack stands were making contact.
If you think about it...the entire front end on these cars is just "along for the ride". There is no reinforcing or "tieing in" anywhere. The front clip simply holds the engine, and all other bolt on components. Nothing at all ties this complete front subframe to anything...except the thin sheetmetal. Definitely need to come up with something that fixes this...I'll keep ideas floating around as well. Hopefully we can all come up with a collaborative idea.
Henry1962s
Active Member
Looks like everyone is having a go at coming up with something that is going to work with big wheels. I had no issues with 17x7 inch rims with 225x50 tyres going lock to lock and at all suspension levels any bigger will be issues.
I initially was going to extend the bars to the front as was mentioned in last post but after strengthening the front cross support ( see attached ) and k frame I don't think it will need it. Will be just adding some extra strengthening to the shock tower and swing arm attachment points and that will be it. Hope to get this done this week and post pick.
Great forum info guys. Thanks
URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/44526182.jpg/]
[/URL]
I initially was going to extend the bars to the front as was mentioned in last post but after strengthening the front cross support ( see attached ) and k frame I don't think it will need it. Will be just adding some extra strengthening to the shock tower and swing arm attachment points and that will be it. Hope to get this done this week and post pick.
Great forum info guys. Thanks
URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/44526182.jpg/]
srixon4406
TURBO TOAD
Subscribed I can only Imagine the kind of flex you guys running V8 are seeing I was amazed the first time I jacked the TOAD up and placed it on stands to my surprise the front end dropped atleast a inch or two and that's with a slant.
I bought a 12 point roll cage kit and was thinking I might just install the roll bar with two bars going back to the rear frame rail but after reading this thread I might just put the hole cage in.
Aaron
I bought a 12 point roll cage kit and was thinking I might just install the roll bar with two bars going back to the rear frame rail but after reading this thread I might just put the hole cage in.
Aaron
nqkjw
Well-Known Member
This is the sort of idea I have for my 69 Barracuda.
I want to cut the vertical part of the inner guards out(except for the shockie mounts)to get better access for plugs,pipes and anything else in there.
A 440 with a tagled mess of pipes don't leave much room .
I'm a skinny front tyre sort of bloke so tyre clearance isn't such a big issue for me.
Great thread.
rapidtransitric
LX/LC platform a body swap pioneer
Looks like everyone is having a go at coming up with something that is going to work with big wheels. I had no issues with 17x7 inch rims with 225x50 tyres going lock to lock and at all suspension levels any bigger will be issues.
I initially was going to extend the bars to the front as was mentioned in last post but after strengthening the front cross support ( see attached ) and k frame I don't think it will need it. Will be just adding some extra strengthening to the shock tower and swing arm attachment points and that will be it. Hope to get this done this week and post pick.
Great forum info guys. Thanks
URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/44526182.jpg/][/URL]
my eyes are glued marty keep it comin'
Badart
Senior Member
Ok I figured out what I want to do for the inner fender bracing. Option A is the J Bars that run inside of the engine bay. I have incorporated a landing on top of the spot welds on the factory shock tower. There is also an 1/8" piece of plate that will box the factory shock tower area for both options and should make that area considerably stronger.
Option A
Option A
Badart
Senior Member
Option B
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 266
Cool thread,and some great idea's here! Im going with j bars(thanks badart!) and some reinforcement to the shock tower like xv made.
One thing folk's missed here is the torsion box area under the front of the car. Plating this area really stiffens up things as well.
One thing folk's missed here is the torsion box area under the front of the car. Plating this area really stiffens up things as well.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
Looks like everyone is having a go at coming up with something that is going to work with big wheels. I had no issues with 17x7 inch rims with 225x50 tyres going lock to lock and at all suspension levels any bigger will be issues.
I initially was going to extend the bars to the front as was mentioned in last post but after strengthening the front cross support ( see attached ) and k frame I don't think it will need it. Will be just adding some extra strengthening to the shock tower and swing arm attachment points and that will be it. Hope to get this done this week and post pick.
Great forum info guys. Thanks
URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/44526182.jpg/][/URL]
Any updates?!?!?!?!?!
-
