Front tire dilemma

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I had some 225/70 14 on my 67 Valiant with no problems, those are 26.4 not sure I'd even go .1 over that.
These got closer when turning.
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Alan
 
It gets worse when backing up and turning, and riding the brake.The brake-action causes the strut rod to move forward and BAM!, the tire kisses the sheet metal. That front corner needs extra clearance just for that..... Unless you have poly bushings, they are significantly harder to deform.
 
69_340_GTS said:
You're at just over Ø 26". Anything bigger is where the problems start.
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I'm measured them today after reading this post this morn., they measure 25 3/4" tall. I have an 1 1/2'' clearance in front of them and 2" behind them. Could run 27" easy, would like to have some that are liter than my 205 radials tho..
 
Hotwheels sr. said:
Yeah, well I've got the problem. Mine are right around 26 and they hit plenty.
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235/60-15 tires are 26.1" and depending on the offset of the wheel, and the ride height, may or may not hit. Try a 7" wheel with 4.5" backspacing. There is a 50/50 chance you'll squeak by if you hit on the right combination.
 
I don't think a 15x7x4.5bs will fit on a Demon.
On my 70 DusterK,68 Barracuda combo,the BJ hit the wheel, and tore off the wheel weights.
My 15x8x4.5bs Wheel Vintique Rallys,required a fair bit of " adjusting" to the wheel, the BJ, the UCA,and the fender. There would certainly be no way anything but a steel wheel could be made to fit. And the 245/50-15 tire gently rubbed both the strut rod and the frame at or near full-lock.

Before you get your alignment done, get the Moog problem solvers installed, and Poly strut-rod bushings,and some decent T-bars and shocks, and make sure the rear of the car sits level,from side to side.
Ask your tech to set the ride height per the daymn book, unless the front gets higher than the rear..... we can't have that lol.The center of the LCA pivot pin and the center of the LBJ should both be at about the same distance from the groundplane. The pivot pin can be a little higher.
Also,ask him to max out the caster with .5 degree negative camber.Both sides equal/ no stagger.

The caster will sweep the UCA to the back, and maximize your clearance to the fender at the front of the opening..
And the Polys will limit the forward travel of the LCA during braking.
And the bars and shocks will minimize or at least delay brake and turning dive.
And the proper ride height will minimize forward motion of the lower BJ as the suspension cycles up and down.

Do not attempt to align the car with the rear of the car not level in the side to side . Do not jack the T-bars around to correct for a weak rear spring; you are just twisting the car up,and messing up the handling. Fix the springs.
Try those tires now.
If the front of the car ends up higher than the rear..... fix the rear. This is why I run 25s up front and 27/28 in the rear on my nearly flat rear springs, to level the car. Well Ok it is raked just a teensey bit.
 
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Was able to cut my fenders, keep the inner lip of the fenders and keep my 235/60/15's on. Thank you all for advise
 
AJ/FormS said:
I agree with JD on the 26s being the max..... but 25.1s are better; My 235/60-14s fit really well and I have not experienced any rub,anywhere, at any suspension travel, at any steering input. But I run 1.03 bars and HD shocks and a lowered ride height, with the K about 5.75 to 6 inches off the deck. That 1 inch tire height difference is only 1/2 difference where it counts.
Stock bars and regular shocks will cycle the suspension to a greater degree, so better safe than sorry. Unless your tire-shop is willing to mount a 26 up for testing purposes.
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AJ what are the measurements on the rim wheels you use on front?
I am trying to fit 245 60 R14 on all 4 on my 69 ABody dart but the rims I bought are 14x7 3.5" BS . I managed them to fit on the rear by cutting 1/2" off the inner fender lips and raising 1" the rear at the fenders. Front suspension still to be assembled and I got really concerned now once I bought all tires and cannot return them.
Any thoughts?

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Not enough backspacing, and the tires are too wide. Not much you can do for the front unless you want to really hack up the fenders. 4.25" to 4.50" is the correct backspacing for 7" wheels on these cars, and you can usually get up to a 225 tire on the front (& rear) with no problems. Of course making more room for bigger tires is fairly simple on the back, but not on the front.
 
245/60s need 8" rims for proper long-term treadwear at performance tire pressures exceeding 30psi.

They will fit on 7s but these will pull the outboard edges of the tires up off the roadway. In an effort to get the edges down,you will need to drop the pressures way down. And then, when you rip around the turns the weight of the car will whip over to the side and pull the inboard edge up off the road, drastically reducing your grip. You will have to get used to that, and change your driving style, so you don't be doing 360s everywhere, which gets to be a lil embarrasing.
My 235s are on 7.75" rims, and I run them at 29 for even treadwear,with a 360 under the hood.

As you have figured out 3.5bs is not enough on the back. With the proper width rims for the tire, at decent pressures beginning at 29, you can run your rubber very close to the springs without rubbing. 1/4 still works with street ride heights that keep the springs closer to flat. The higher you raise the rear, the more the car will sway in the turns, and with highly arched springs,the rear end will drift sideways some. You look to have plenty of room back there. I think you mightabin able to run a 4.5bs, which is what I run.
In any case, too late now, you took the least expensive route by raising and trimming; and I think your rear will be alright. I would start them off at no more than 26psi and keep an eye on the treadwear. Ease into the turns until you see what's what back there.
The front tires I'm pretty sure will rub on the strutrods at full lock on one side and may hit the frame on the opposite side, and will probably tag the fenders on the frontmost side. I had to trim my fenders quite a bit.
I usually run 1 to 2 pounds higher in the front to compensate for the heavier front weight.
 
I have 235 M/T fronts and were rubbing . It was the backspace of the wheel that caused the problem . Try a rim with a 4" or 4 1/2" backspace instead of mixing tire brands
 
69_340_GTS said:
Not enough backspacing, and the tires are too wide. Not much you can do for the front unless you want to really hack up the fenders. 4.25" to 4.50" is the correct backspacing for 7" wheels on these cars, and you can usually get up to a 225 tire on the front (& rear) with no problems. Of course making more room for bigger tires is fairly simple on the back, but not on the front.
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I know, wrong backspace... well, guess I will take my time to fix and assemble the front and find out... Too bad here in Brazil the 14" tires go only till 185 and imports are very expensive when you find them...
 
AJ/FormS said:
245/60s need 8" rims for proper long-term treadwear at performance tire pressures exceeding 30psi.

They will fit on 7s but these will pull the outboard edges of the tires up off the roadway. In an effort to get the edges down,you will need to drop the pressures way down. And then, when you rip around the turns the weight of the car will whip over to the side and pull the inboard edge up off the road, drastically reducing your grip. You will have to get used to that, and change your driving style, so you don't be doing 360s everywhere, which gets to be a lil embarrasing.
My 235s are on 7.75" rims, and I run them at 29 for even treadwear,with a 360 under the hood.

As you have figured out 3.5bs is not enough on the back. With the proper width rims for the tire, at decent pressures beginning at 29, you can run your rubber very close to the springs without rubbing. 1/4 still works with street ride heights that keep the springs closer to flat. The higher you raise the rear, the more the car will sway in the turns, and with highly arched springs,the rear end will drift sideways some. You look to have plenty of room back there. I think you mightabin able to run a 4.5bs, which is what I run.
In any case, too late now, you took the least expensive route by raising and trimming; and I think your rear will be alright. I would start them off at no more than 26psi and keep an eye on the treadwear. Ease into the turns until you see what's what back there.
The front tires I'm pretty sure will rub on the strutrods at full lock on one side and may hit the frame on the opposite side, and will probably tag the fenders on the frontmost side. I had to trim my fenders quite a bit.
I usually run 1 to 2 pounds higher in the front to compensate for the heavier front weight.
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Thanks for all the information.
I know I went too fast buying those Rim Wheels but they are the only type that I like which is available here for these cars. I was not expecting the backspace on them was half an inch less than another 7x14 set I have from the same 70's manufacturer.
I do not have many options here as far as Wheels because these darts made in Brazil have a different bolt pattern which is 4.25 inch, just like Ford, then sbp or lbt will not work.
I just hope I get a good grip on the rear running from 26 to 30 PSI.
as far as the front I will need to finish the suspension work to find out but I guess I will have to replace the front tires.
I also think the rear was too low...
You think longer shackles would be better than rearching the springs like I did?
It's got a 318... 0 to 60 in 9-10 sec...so all the fun is on the turns..
The thing is, I like that style wheel for this car so I will have to mix tires if I can't fit them there without looking ridiculous...
And I think I will cover those white writtings...it is a 4 door...

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Zero-offset is correct for the front of an A-body to maintain the factory scrub-radius. But the 245s are just a lil too wide for a 7"rim, and 245s are about an inch taller than stock,~.5" on the radius. These two factors combine to cause some turning problems up front. If you raise the front .5 from factory, you get some relief to the fender , but that introduces new steering problems. Which a new alignment may or may not solve.
In the back we usually move the rims back under the car with about 4.5bs, which allows an 8", and therefore 245s.
Of course if the front goes up, the back also has to go up, and that shifts weight to the front, so it has to go up a lil more to compensate.
However, longer shackles only solve the height , and only temporarily, plus they introduce handling problems. IMO, they are a bad solution, if you still wanna fly around the turns. The better solution is to have the springs re-arched, and go back to the factory shackles. But if that introduces a lotta arch. it is still a bad solution, because the tall springs allow body sideways motion which can upset your handling.
The best solution is to re-engineer your front ride height back to stock, and follow that with the reducing the rear height to just a lil rake. Ride height is not how high the wheel openings are from the ground. Mopars have a specific way to measure ride height, and you need to be at least in the ballpark or else you may suffer steering ills like; bump-steer, incessant wandering, and have a car that likes to climb up out of every little rut in the asphalt..
I like your rim choice too, so if you are desperate to keep them, the only solutions I see are to roll the fender lips and trim the openings. Tall shackles are bad-news for anything but straighline work, and they will eventually sag or bend the springs.
Welcome to HotRodding
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Zero-offset is correct for the front of an A-body to maintain the factory scrub-radius. But the 245s are just a lil too wide for a 7"rim, and 245s are about an inch taller than stock,~.5" on the radius. These two factors combine to cause some turning problems up front. If you raise the front .5 from factory, you get some relief to the fender , but that introduces new steering problems. Which a new alignment may or may not solve.
In the back we usually move the rims back under the car with about 4.5bs, which allows an 8", and therefore 245s.
Of course if the front goes up, the back also has to go up, and that shifts weight to the front, so it has to go up a lil more to compensate.
However, longer shackles only solve the height , and only temporarily, plus they introduce handling problems. IMO, they are a bad solution, if you still wanna fly around the turns. The better solution is to have the springs re-arched, and go back to the factory shackles. But if that introduces a lotta arch. it is still a bad solution, because the tall springs allow body sideways motion which can upset your handling.
The best solution is to re-engineer your front ride height back to stock, and follow that with the reducing the rear height to just a lil rake. Ride height is not how high the wheel openings are from the ground. Mopars have a specific way to measure ride height, and you need to be at least in the ballpark or else you may suffer steering ills like; bump-steer, incessant wandering, and have a car that likes to climb up out of every little rut in the asphalt..
I like your rim choice too, so if you are desperate to keep them, the only solutions I see are to roll the fender lips and trim the openings. Tall shackles are bad-news for anything but straighline work, and they will eventually sag or bend the springs.
Welcome to HotRodding
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Great info,this 4 door 318LA/A904 was the very 1st car I bought and is has been sitting in the garage so long, now I just want to make it run a bit better than before so I am having much more work than I expected, one thing leads to another... anyway, I was considering longer shackles at first because the rear was too low and they are cheap but after researching I decided to re-arch the springs, besides, leaf springs on the left were saggier so it is about one inch higher than stock at the rear axle now, and I will have to add a 1/2" spacer to bring the shackles up front and improve the angle, they look vertical now. When re-arching the springs I asked the guy to just re-arch the rear part of the leaf springs to keep the front as before and avoid body roll, not sure if it helps any...
As far as the front, if the bulge of the 245 60 14 is not wider than the upper outer edge of the front fenders, I`d be considering making them fit there, unless they look weird. The front fenders on this car have some bars that hold the edges right in front of the tire and above it that allow a bit of pushing out...
Otherwise I`d have to go 215 60 R14 or so...
I had 205 70 R14 on all wheels and they look so skiny but they were mounted on the 5.5x14 stock steel rims.
Pics of shackle now and before.

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Yes your rear shackle angle is a lil shallow, but if they don't flip on you, I'd be tempted to leave them. The springs will sag a lil in the next few months.
Yes the front fender struts may have to be removed and the lips rolled.I might bet money on it,lol. We do this with a wooden dowel that will grip the tire, and then have a helper roll the car back and forth while you try to control the dowel as it rolls between the tire and the lip. Easy does it, and a lil bit at a time. It's a one-way trip for the fender so easy does it. Some guys use a baseball bat.
Before driving it,give her full lock steering and back her up. When you hit the brakes, the tire will move towards the front bumper and usually smashes into the fender and tries to crumple it upwards as it catches on the tire-treads. The only cure is to cut a section off the fender for clearance. Here you need to be generous cuz the strutrod has a large range of motion, and if you crumple your fender, you are not gonna be happy. Keep in mind that as the suspension cycles up and down, this clearance you are gonna create, changes. So be careful and generous.
If you do this in the forward direction, the wheel will move rearwards, and give you false security, but at least it won't crumple the fender.
After your rear tires wear out, consider taller tires on 15s back there on rims with more bs. Big and littles have always been common on our performance A-bodies. If you worry about carrying 2 spares,yur not dedicated or adventurous enough,lol.. Instead,carry a plug repair kit and a pump. Besides in my entire 50 years of driving, I think I have been stranded just twice by flats, and both times within 4 miles of home, God is good.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Yes your rear shackle angle is a lil shallow, but if they don't flip on you, I'd be tempted to leave them. The springs will sag a lil in the next few months.
Yes the front fender struts may have to be removed and the lips rolled.I might bet money on it,lol. We do this with a wooden dowel that will grip the tire, and then have a helper roll the car back and forth while you try to control the dowel as it rolls between the tire and the lip. Easy does it, and a lil bit at a time. It's a one-way trip for the fender so easy does it. Some guys use a baseball bat.
Before driving it,give her full lock steering and back her up. When you hit the brakes, the tire will move towards the front bumper and usually smashes into the fender and tries to crumple it upwards as it catches on the tire-treads. The only cure is to cut a section off the fender for clearance. Here you need to be generous cuz the strutrod has a large range of motion, and if you crumple your fender, you are not gonna be happy. Keep in mind that as the suspension cycles up and down, this clearance you are gonna create, changes. So be careful and generous.
If you do this in the forward direction, the wheel will move rearwards, and give you false security, but at least it won't crumple the fender.
After your rear tires wear out, consider taller tires on 15s back there on rims with more bs. Big and littles have always been common on our performance A-bodies. If you worry about carrying 2 spares,yur not dedicated or adventurous enough,lol.. Instead,carry a plug repair kit and a pump. Besides in my entire 50 years of driving, I think I have been stranded just twice by flats, and both times within 4 miles of home, God is good.
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Thanks, I`ll let you know when I get there!
 
Hotwheels sr. said:
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Was able to cut my fenders, keep the inner lip of the fenders and keep my 235/60/15's on. Thank you all for advise
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Old posts, but u guys ever think about making longer fender braces to shove the front edge out a little, creating more tuning room ?
I don't run any, but would if I ever buy taller front tires .
68`s had then from the factory, would be no big deal to make longer ones out of aluminum !
 
famous bob said:
Old posts, but u guys ever think about making longer fender braces to shove the front edge out a little, creating more tuning room ?
I don't run any, but would if I ever buy taller front tires .
68`s had then from the factory, would be no big deal to make longer ones out of aluminum !
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Bob, you mean 68's had them from factory? Darts? Any chance you could post some images? You mean the narrow aluminum trims like on mine (picture). Thanks for the comment.

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DLJ said:
Bob, you mean 68's had them from factory? Darts? Any chance you could post some images? You mean the narrow aluminum trims like on mine (picture). Thanks for the comment.

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What part of fender braces did u miss / LOL . Was referring to the fender braces on 68 barracudas, can be mad longer to shove the front of the fender out for turning room w/ a taller tire-----
I thot most all A bodies came out w/ them . ???????????
 
My 2 cents: Met a guy at mopars in the park last summer with a white 1967 Dart, we were talking tire clearances on the A Bodies. He said on his front lower front fenders he extended the front lower 5/16th support rod by 1 inch to gain tire clearance while turning with his mag wheels on. Made a lot of sense to me. Basically kicking out the front bottom of the fender to stay away from the front tire. Still looked factory, never would have known had he not told me.

One turn up on the front torsion bars might give a tad bit of help too, reset the toe in after the torsion adjustment. Most of these cars are sitting pretty low in the front anyway.
 
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