Frustrated with inability to do body work!

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I would skim coat that with metal glaze and work it with 180g. one last time. I don't pile on primer like it's body filler. Priming over 80g scratch can lead to sand scratch swelling later down the road after the paint is on. Some primers whether epoxy or 2k require an etch primer underneath so you have to look at the tech sheets for the brand of primer you select to find out what's required.
 
rod7515 said:
Ive been working on the front fenders of my 66 dart on and off for 6 weeks. Im no farther ahead tonight then I was at the beginning. Problem Im having isnt making surface smooth but its creating or should I say recreating the body lines. Heres the history, My dart is a 270, it had a body trim that went from front to rear about 3/4 of the way towards the top of the fenders and door and rear quarters. Ive removed them and will not be using them again so I had to weld the holes that are in the body to hold trim in place. Here is a pic of the fender.
View attachment 1715083199
Above the center between the 2 indents are the biggest issue. There are 3 places that you can see I have put filler into. My issue is remaking that body line both top and bottom. First I am struggling to find the exact line to follow. Ive been trying to stretch tape along the old line but its very hard to see that exact line since the line is rounded toward the indents. I can make the indented area flat but im struggling to then match the rounded body line to the flat area without going to high into the center area or to low into the flat indented area. I feel like all i do is make filler and sand it off and repeat! I tried using 180 grit and also 80 grit on sanding blocks both flat and rounded ones.
View attachment 1715083200 Above you can see I have it somewhat filled in but it was to low at the flat area of the indent. Below it looks like I have body lines but they werent straight. Any suggestions on a good method would be greatly appreciated.
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I want to do this myself and not have to pay someone to do it but so far I am going nowhere fast!
Thanks Rod
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Mine looked similar to yours (worse than yours by a lot.) I used 3/4 pvc on the inside curved areas of the front side of the fenders for the inner outward curved parts I used a slightly concave sanded 2x4 the width of the smallest area, the fender lip areas I used 1 and 1-1/4 pvc wraped in sandpaper to help define shape. for the body lines to stay sharp, straight and crisp I taped one side and sanded up to that line then taped the other side and did the same sand up to. that kept the body lines sharp
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=1240d205b5d56a11e3fc050dbd74abd8&action=view
If you have a good opposite fender or curved section you could "cheat" by placing or taping a piece of saran wrap onto the curved section you want to duplicate cutting a 1"x 2" the height of the curved section and then slather a bit of body filler on the saran wrap to shape it. stick the 1"x2" onto the body filler before it hardens and you now have a custom shaped sanding block. peel saran wrap off of bondo(if you can) add stick on sandpaper and go to town on the curved surface.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=51deebd2e3c73f203cd338b73a4e2b23&action=view

the beginning
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mostly fixed not metal worked yet to finish welds and shape
!metal front fender repair.jpg



Stud guns are your friend!
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that darn dent by the front bumper is finally gone.

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and done
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the defining lines on the 66 is a hard part to get right. mine was in the bumper recess area(dented in @ pic #2 and the top body line that someone had dented down midway in the body line with what looked to be a rounded ballpeen hammer ) I spent 3 weeks getting rid of a slight curve on the rear section of the rear lower patch panel and then realized that it was supposed to be in there! took 3 solid days of metal stretching to get it back in @$#%%$ DUH moment.
 
DesertRat said:
My method is to put epoxy primer down when I have the body work close. I prefer it as the base coat.
Then I start blocking with guide coat and using mud where needed and topping it with high-build primer as
the work gets closer and closer. Lastly, a little glaze if needed and a good coat of sealer just before color.
It's not right or wrong, it's just the way I do body & paint.
You are on the right track and you want the right coating on that bare metal. I'm sure you will get other
input which may vary. A lot depends on your paint vendor and your budget as well.
Best of luck as you proceed!
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Not to hijack, but I have a question, do you block sand the sealer also, maybe with a fine sandpaper?
 
66Dvert, thanks for all ur info. I've been away this weekend but hope to start back on the car this week after another month of not working on it. My golf league ended this week so there's at least on night a week I can throw at it. And soon I will have weekends since beach time is about done. I wanted to complete and paint by this fall but that's not going to happen. So I will make a goal of May and hope for the best. This forum has been so good at helping with suggestions and methods so I need to get at it.
Thanks again everyone
Rod
 
Had an opportunity to go out last night and do a little work. I decided to throw some primer on the front fenders just so I could see what the lines looked like. Here are some pics of each fender. Im not satisfied with the lines so Im going to try to get them a little straighter and a lttle more level. I can see that the holes I welded were still a little low.
Here is the passenger side, the one thing I see is each spot that has filler on it bleeds thru the primer. Its only one coat but is this normal?
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Now here is the drivers fender. same thing I can see a bleed thru of each spot that has been repaired. The lines are the only thing i was not happy with. I think the other holes that were welded and repaired are good.
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Now I must tell you these fenders were only sanded with 80 grit so far. I guess now as I go forward I will need to go to a 180 grit. Maybe thats the reason that the repaired areas look the way they do? Also i wasnt real concerned about dirt so I didnt clean before I sprayed figuring I would need to sand anyway. I was just trying to get an idea about where I was going to be in the repair process.
After I was done I did a quick soft sand across the line area and found that I had low spots so I put a little more filler on the entire center line area and left it sit over night. I will try to get time tonight to address that area again and see if I can improve that. Let me know your thoughts and where you think I should go next to make this better.
Thanks Rod
 
rod7515 said:
Had an opportunity to go out last night and do a little work. I decided to throw some primer on the front fenders just so I could see what the lines looked like. Here are some pics of each fender. Im not satisfied with the lines so Im going to try to get them a little straighter and a lttle more level. I can see that the holes I welded were still a little low.
Here is the passenger side, the one thing I see is each spot that has filler on it bleeds thru the primer. Its only one coat but is this normal?
View attachment 1715097038 View attachment 1715097039 View attachment 1715097040 View attachment 1715097041

Now here is the drivers fender. same thing I can see a bleed thru of each spot that has been repaired. The lines are the only thing i was not happy with. I think the other holes that were welded and repaired are good.
View attachment 1715097042 View attachment 1715097044
View attachment 1715097045
Now I must tell you these fenders were only sanded with 80 grit so far. I guess now as I go forward I will need to go to a 180 grit. Maybe thats the reason that the repaired areas look the way they do? Also i wasnt real concerned about dirt so I didnt clean before I sprayed figuring I would need to sand anyway. I was just trying to get an idea about where I was going to be in the repair process.
After I was done I did a quick soft sand across the line area and found that I had low spots so I put a little more filler on the entire center line area and left it sit over night. I will try to get time tonight to address that area again and see if I can improve that. Let me know your thoughts and where you think I should go next to make this better.
Thanks Rod
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not bad at all! stick to it - you're getting there. Hey G @GeorgeH --- whatcha think?
 
Once you pull out the primer,80 grit goes away. My body shop guy works with finer paper all the time. Especially the glazing putty, which is now 2 part like filler. I tried sanding it, coarse paper hardly marks if, but 220 makes dust.
He also uses tape lines, fills up to the tape and blocks it off.
And only sands cross-hatch.
 
Hard to tell from the photos but the lines look pretty good for where you are at from here.
Use tape and high build primer, cross hatching progressively finer paper until you get what you want.
Truth is, you will never be truly happy with it, doesn't happen in body & paint---------------:)
 
How long do you have to wait before sanding on primer. I know it will depend on how heavy but what's a general time.
Rod
 
Once primer is mixed how long will it be good for. Can I put it in qt can with lid sealed for a few days or do I have to mix each time
Rod
 
rod7515 said:
Once primer is mixed how long will it be good for. Can I put it in qt can with lid sealed for a few days or do I have to mix each time
Rod
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You should be using a catalyzed primer which will have at most a 1-2 hour pot life depending on temperature.
I don't use any product that doesn't require a hardener or catalyzer.
 
Can't remember the part number but it does have a catalyst. So I guess the pint I put in a can last night I can't use tonight.
Rod
 
Yep.
Hard piece times two.
I do all my sanding body work outside.
This past week I cut, welded and replaced a lower quarter patch on a Duster Sport.
I used a snap chalk line as a sanding guide.
Seemed to work well.
But that was a straight line.
I also used a long sanding block for a straight edge and a lead pencil which made for a more durable temporary guide line.
I could replace either marking with a new guide line as needed.

On the OP car, what the eye does not see the body man gets away with.
Light sand and paint.
Find high/low flaws.
Lighter sand.
Paint.
Find flaws.
Still lighter sand.
Repeat as necessary.
 
DesertRat said:
Hard to tell from the photos but the lines look pretty good for where you are at from here.
Use tape and high build primer, cross hatching progressively finer paper until you get what you want.
Truth is, you will never be truly happy with it, doesn't happen in body & paint---------------:)
Click to expand...
agree, I'm my own worst critic. Never satisfied and OCD about it.
 
It's normal for the first coat of primer to be absorbed by the filler especially if put over 80g scratch, but... and some will argue, and it depends on the primer also but priming over 80g can lead to sand scratch swelling later after the paint is put on. I always finish with 180g before prime. Polyester glazing putty is okay over primer so I would guide coat that mask out your body lines, block it out again skim any low spots with metal glaze and block that out. re-prime. Stay away from the acrylic/lacquer based glazing puttys as that stuff likes to shrink and it drys out and takes all day to dry thoroughly. Dolphin glaze, 3m metal glaze, Icing are all about the same product.
 
rod7515 said:
Can't remember the part number but it does have a catalyst. So I guess the pint I put in a can last night I can't use tonight.
Rod
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Best way to deal with it is to buy a 4:1 mixing stick or automotive paint mixing cups that have the 4:1 graduations so you can accurately mix from a couple ounces to a quart. Some may laugh, but I run soup or larger cans threw the dishwasher and use them for primer. Wipe off the stick and toss the can so I'm not blowing through stacks of mixing cups.
 
Well, Saturday Keith aka "zkx14" shows up in the afternoon to see what progress I am making. Unfortunately there wasnt much new to show him since the last time he was here about 6 - 8 weeks ago. SO we talked for a while and he had some good suggestions so yesterday I finally pushed myself out to the shed to do some fender work. I had put some glaze on the "scallop" area (hoping thats the right term as someone else called it that earlier in this thread) using tape to make straight lines both top and bottom.
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I left that glaze sit for about 4 days before removing the tape. it was a very thin layer and the tape came off without chipping. I used the guide coat to see what I had. Next was to hit it with 180 sand paper on a block. The first pic is after 3 strokes back and forth. The second pic is with 3 more strokes back and forth and the last was with 4 more strokes.
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I ended up adding a little more glaze on the low spots and I am very happy were I ended up. I didnt take pics yet but i will. As I was cleaning the inner side of the fender I found another pin hole in the lip that bolts to the engine compartment flange. I need to take some pics. Bad thing is that hole means more very thin metal so I might have to cut and add a piece of metal and that would go to the top of the fender. Going to try to spot weld it shut but Im afraid it might burn a bigger hole if its to thin. Anyway I am going to try to get at least 2 nights out their this week so I can get these fenders ready. I'll keep you updated.
Rod
 
Oh one more question, Keith noticed that my sanding pads had a lot of build up of the glue for the paper.
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I have always left the paper on the block until its time to replace and i guess I shouldnt do it that way? Sometimes it might be weeks in between using them. I tried using thinner to remove this once Keith pointed it out, but it doesnt want to come of easily. Any suggestions and does this happen to anyone else? Is the cure to remove it each time your done for the day?
Thanks Rod
 
All the time. Problem is the thinners or solvents make surface tacky and Makes paper stick better. I keep doing that with my orbital. Frustrating, all over wanting to save a piece of paper.

Find yourself a block of copper for backing your welds. It helps. Short tacks. Weld wont stick to copper.
 
rod7515 said:
Oh one more question, Keith noticed that my sanding pads had a lot of build up of the glue for the paper.
View attachment 1715098985
I have always left the paper on the block until its time to replace and i guess I shouldnt do it that way? Sometimes it might be weeks in between using them. I tried using thinner to remove this once Keith pointed it out, but it doesnt want to come of easily. Any suggestions and does this happen to anyone else? Is the cure to remove it each time your done for the day?
Thanks Rod
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Haven't used it for that, but Ronsonol lighter fluid removes most adhesives. Apply to soften. Scrape off goo and wipe with a little more..
 
Spent some time hopefully completing the fenders to the point I should start spraying primer builder and blocking it down. Its not perfect but I think I will be happy with it. This body work stuff is tuff work!
Now i'm starting the doors. Same thing on the skins, I had to weld the trim holes shut.
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Once that was done I took the grinder and ground down to surface. Then I took some filler and spend across the door so I could see where I stood as for high spots and low spots. Here is where I am at after sanding off the filler with a 11" block and using 80 grit paper. As you can see each spot I welded appears to be lower than the door skin so hopefully I wont have any high spots.
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Now the question is how should I attack this so I get a nice smooth skin. This will be the same thing I will encounter on the rear quarters when I get to them. The front fender wasnt quite this way as it had more curves that hid any uneven surfaces.
Looking for some good advice so as I go forward i'm not wasting time reworking my work!
Thanks
Rod
 
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