Fuel system info

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player1up

player1up

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There's been some off board discussion about fuel systems and what works and what it costs and such so here is the post discussion report for the budget minded:

Return style filter / Regulators:
Stock replacement for 1999-2004 Corvette rated at 55psi
Microgard Part number 33737 -- Price at O'reilly's auto parts is $19.99 as of now. For some reason it doesn't show up when you input the vehicle and search on the website so you'll need the part number.
WIX Part number 33737-- a little more expensive at $45

Way better options than most of the prices that I've seen ( some as much as $120 )
* engine side of regulator has a female quick connect and needs an adapter but this is a one time purchase.

** Dave reported high pressure ( 65psi ) when using the 2.2L S10 filter / regulator but not sure if it's related to return line size or a faulty unit AND I've not been able to find a definitive source on what the pressure should be.

The main issue that I had with going this route is that a replacement filter if needed is expensive at $80-$100 every time and would make me want to go toward a stand alone regulator due to cost.

Fuel pumps:
Airtex E2182 ( has hose barb on both ends, is readily available at any local parts places for around $85 or online for $70 ) ( Thanks to Jim for finding this option )
Airtex E2000 ( has quick connects on both ends, is readily available at any local parts places for around $85 or online for $70 )

Fuel sending unit with return:
Right stuff YSU6901 3/8 stainless with fuel return point -- at one point I found one for $40 online

I personally use the the microgard 33737 and the e2000. Fuel pressure tested at the fuel rail is a rock steady 54psi at idle.

Fuel pump, filter / regulator on mine is mounted right in front of the passenger front spring mount on the outside of the frame rail. There is enough room but just barely.

The assembly can be mounted inside the frame rail, but I'd run some sort of cover plate to protect from debris and or exhaust heat, just like some of the OEM installs.

Speaking of debris, add a pre-pump filter! you'll be happy you did.

I know there are high $ pumps and setups out there ( I even had a walbro GSL392 installed at one point and it was super loud ) but I just wanted to let everyone know that there are some really affordable solutions out there.
 
I want to thank Player1up and AAADave for all of their help in building my fuel system. There are some things I would like to add.

Be sure what the counter person hands you at the parts store is "Fuel injection" gas hose. I got low pressure hose at one store, power steering hose at another. Use "Fuel injection" type clamps.
When I connected rubber hose to a straight metal fuel line, I used a double flaring adapter to make a "bubble" at the end of the metal line so that the rubber hose won't come off.
I did as Player1up stated, using a prefilter before the fuel pump. Mine was about $5 and change from O'Reilly's.

I bought my fittings from RockAuto. Cheapest place I could find - by far. You can get brass hose barb fittings at Lowe's or Home Depot.

DORMAN 800155 (800-155)Fuel Line Steel Repair fitting was used for the female output port on the fuel regulator, connecting to the metal fuel line going to the engine.

DORMAN 800121 (800-121)Fuel Line Repair Kit 3/8" quick connect fitting used on the return line port off of the fuel regulator.

Last thing is - For the proper fuel pressure I looked in my 2001 Ram FSM and it states:
Normal operating pressure should be 339 kPa +/–34 kPa (49.2 psi +/–5 psi). This is for the fuel rail that does not have a regulator and return fuel line.

Thanks Again guys for all the help.
 
after about an hour on google I found out the rail pressure of the s10 flex fuel engine is 62 psi. that, and with my return cut down to 1/4 inch at the sender, is probably why I'm seeing 65. rail requirement on the corvette is 55. dave
 
well, guess i'll be going to an adjustable pressure regulator. changed from an s10 filter/reg. to the corvette one. went from 65psi down to 62 at idle. all I can think of is where the return chokes down to 1/4 at the sender, and not letting enough fuel to pass through. dave.
 
Wont that return still be a problem with the adjustable regulator if it's too small now?...I thought that the sender had a 5/16 or 3/8 return.
 
Be sure you guys periodically check those rubber lines, even if they're "fuel rated." With this crazy amounts of ethanol they're putting in the fuel these days, I'm seeing failures and "damn near" failures in short periods of time.

Steve
 
LXguy said:
Be sure you guys periodically check those rubber lines, even if they're "fuel rated." With this crazy amounts of ethanol they're putting in the fuel these days, I'm seeing failures and "damn near" failures in short periods of time.

Steve
Click to expand...

Good point Steve.
I had the "damn near" failure on my car. I did have one random piece that appeared to have the inner lining separating when I had to change the filter setup.
Maybe just a low quality EFI hose as I've been reading recently that they're not all the same. That's why I used as much of the steel line from the magnum as I could at the engine
 
I also use the Corvette filter/reg on my 65 Dart (see post). I have found 4 basic types of EFI external pumps.

Ford 80-90's V-8 truck type is cheapest ($50), since often from China. It has a big threaded plastic inlet like in-tank pumps. A brass hose fitting screws onto the inlet, but I recall seeing that fitting only for 5/16" hose.

Walbro pumps come in several volume flows and sold under many brand names. Can buy new for $100 on ebay or get a used one from a tuner who thinks he needs more flow. More capacity than needed will uselessly heat the fuel. If running TBI injectors (~20 psi), the pump's volume capacity is much more than at MPFI pressures (55 psi), so no sense buying big for that. Can get fittings for 3/8" hose barb inlet & outlet.

Holley gear-rotor pump that came with their Pro-jection system. Slightly smaller than all above, funky electrical connector so get that with a used one. Even Holley changed to above pumps. I used one for over a decade. Initially failed 1 or 2, but my fault (restricted inlet). It was mounted in the rear of my Newport.

Bosch Jetronic pump, used on Euro cars (M-B, BMW). Fatter than all above and seems more rugged. Marketed under various names as a high HP upgrade. I use one on my Newport now because I found two new ones for $15 on ebay. Most have a special banjo outlet fitting w/ check valve, but you can find a few adapters. Only place I found the mating banjo fitting was a DeLorean website (John used that pump).

EFI hose is very expensive ($5/ft?) so minimize use. Steel tubing is lighter and cheaper. New cars use nylon tubing but quite expensive, tricky to use (heat & wiggle on, no hose clamp and amazingly it doesn't blow off the fitting). It can crack as it ages. Very light and fairly stiff, so need fewer supports.

My sender is 3/8" outlet w/ 1/4" return (vent). I see 10 psig return pressure, which actually works good when I substitute a carburetor, w/ in-line reg to drop to 5 psig. However, Holley says to keep return <4 psig. I can't imagine why that matters since the injectors don't see that pressure.

I am probably the only one who mounts the EFI pump in the engine bay (lower frame rail). Works fine for me. Holley and others say "must be close to tank and below fuel level". I am a mech engineer and my last job was at Crane Valve, so allowed to think for myself. One advantage of a rear pump is you can use a shorter return tube and run just one tube forward, assuming your reg is back there. Cars since ~2000 have done that - federal mandate of "return-less" fuel system. It is a nasty place for a pump and tougher for roadside repairs, plus can transmit noise into the cabin, but put it there if it comforts you.
 
Gentlemen great thread and I believe it will be quite helpful for me real soon. Is all of this in lieu of an in tank pump? If so what about fuel slosh, and starvation issues? Thank you.
 
hey dan, i'll tell ya, iv'e gone around and around with my fuel set up. had the external pump and tried several different filters and still couldn't get the pressure under 62. so, I bought a real expensive Mallory regulater and finally got that under control. only thing was it was real loud. kinda like a bunch of mad bees back there. lol. then got to reading people having to replace em all the time and that I need to carry a spare. my imagination being what it is, lol, I worried about it every time I drove it. so I just dropped the tank and put an original magnum pump in the top of the tank and did away with the return line and reg. now it's just like it was in the truck and I'm a happy camper. :D dave.
 
Great thread! In my fury I started with an external pump and corvette regulator, worked great for about 3k miles, but I kept it over 1/2 tank. Then I took it on a 2 1/2 hour trip on a 104* day and it failed. I used the Chrysler hemi swap pump, and I carried a spare (walbro I think) in the glove box so I wasn't stranded. Then the spare failed that day on the way home! I bought a bag of ice and was able to zip tie it to the pump to get me in. My wife is a saint by the way :). I then put the tanks inc. in tank setup in my original tank, which has a trough built in the module so you don't have to baffle the tank. So far I have put about 1000 miles on that setup. I also have that in my 5.7 hemi dart and it has about 2000 miles on it as well, so I am happy so far! My original fury setup was not ideal as far as pump placement, so I am not bashing external pumps, I know they can work well when planned out better. For the price of my two externals, I could've bought the in tank setup, so that's what I did from the start for my dart. The corvette filter/regulator has seemed to work well in both applications, I've used the wix one both times.
 
ya, I ran my external pump for about 6 months and never had any trouble, but it just wasn't worth the worry. besides, I'm getting to old to crawl under these things on the side of the road. :D
 
Thanks guys, I did discover about a month ago, that tanks inc now has the fuelie tank on their website. Guess that is the way.
 
aaadave said:
ya, I ran my external pump for about 6 months and never had any trouble, but it just wasn't worth the worry. besides, I'm getting to old to crawl under these things on the side of the road. :D
Click to expand...
Access was a problem when I had the external pump on the rear frame rail in my 65 Newport (for Holley Pro-jection TBI), plus it made a racket thru the rear seat. No problems since I moved it to the engine bay. I know that Holley, etc say you must mount it near the tank and lower, but I am a mechanical engineer and can think for myself. Test the flow from your supply tube. In my cars, the fuel just pours out, so can't restrict the pump. Plus, a Walbro pump can suck fuel up to 5 ft high, if worried about very steep roads. I currently have the Bosch pump (banjo outlet fitting) on my Newport, Walbro (3/8" barbs) on my 65 Dart, and Ford truck ext pump (5/16" barbs) on my 64 Valiant.
 
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