full floating wristpins vs. pressed wristpins

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Pics of pin bores and locks.
Thanks Max on the tip for which way for locks to face/orient.
No oiling holes for pin on bottom of piston.
Still sitting on the fence whether I drill oil hole in small end of rod. My concern is when drilling that I may "distort" the bushing and end up needing to replace.
Also a little bit of rust on pins. Scotch brite and good?
Thanks all

Your pistons also ought to have grooves for the pin locks inside the pin bores of the pistons, near the other ends of the pin bores.

If the style of clip that gets used looks like this (see pic) there is a right way and a less right way to be installed. Look really close to how the clip is made, there is a slight contour to it's shape, put the "rounded" surface towards the pin and there for the more "sharper" edge will face outward possibly helping preventing the clip from ever coming out. Also "clock" the end gap to the 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock position, this reduces the likelihood of the clip coming out due to the reciprocating forces being a factor.View attachment 1715112503

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There is no "less right" or " possibly preventing". Your post is DEAD RIGHT. The correct way to install piston pin snap rings is flat face toward the outside, against the piston and rounded face to the pin. Otherwise, the force exerted against the snap ring from the pin can and will force the pin out of the slot, since the rounded face will allow that.

If the style of clip that gets used looks like this (see pic) there is a right way and a less right way to be installed. Look really close to how the clip is made, there is a slight contour to it's shape, put the "rounded" surface towards the pin and there for the more "sharper" edge will face outward possibly helping preventing the clip from ever coming out. Also "clock" the end gap to the 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock position, this reduces the likelihood of the clip coming out due to the reciprocating forces being a factor.View attachment 1715112503
 
Pics of pin bores and locks.
Thanks Max on the tip for which way for locks to face/orient.
No oiling holes for pin on bottom of piston.
Still sitting on the fence whether I drill oil hole in small end of rod. My concern is when drilling that I may "distort" the bushing and end up needing to replace.
Also a little bit of rust on pins. Scotch brite and good?
Thanks all


I'd drill the rods. Just chamfer the hole and make sure the pin slides nicely through the rod once you do it. Scotch brite the pins and go.





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you won't distort the bushing when you drill it, also, if the piston has pin oiling holes in pin bores, you can run steel on steel, with .0008 clearance. it will oil rod and pin. no spalling or grooving. I've done this many times no problems.
 
Thanks guys just thought I would mention I found the small end drill mod in one of the books I have. It says to use 3/32" bit so easy does it lol.
Chamfering the holes? I don't have special bit fot that. Can I use an oversized bit and "countersink" a tad?
Thanks again.
There is no "less right" or " possibly preventing". Your post is DEAD RIGHT. The correct way to install piston pin snap rings is flat face toward the outside, against the piston and rounded face to the pin. Otherwise, the force exerted against the snap ring from the pin can and will force the pin out of the slot, since the rounded face will allow that.


you won't distort the bushing when you drill it, also, if the piston has pin oiling holes in pin bores, you can run steel on steel, with .0008 clearance. it will oil rod and pin. no spalling or grooving. I've done this many times no problems.

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I built a 440 using the honed out stock rods right on the wrist pins. I had holes with like the picture above in my rods, also holes in the bottom of the pistons- as well as the correct clearance. Keith black pistons with spiral locks. I had to tear it down for an unrelated reason and discovered all the wrist pins were turning blue and most were locked onto the rods. The engine had only run for maybe an hour. I wont be doing that ever again.
 
after drilling, hole, run a brake hone through bore with oil. to remove any burrs.
Good idea, thanks!

I built a 440 using the honed out stock rods right on the wrist pins. I had holes with like the picture above in my rods, also holes in the bottom of the pistons- as well as the correct clearance. Keith black pistons with spiral locks. I had to tear it down for an unrelated reason and discovered all the wrist pins were turning blue and most were locked onto the rods. The engine had only run for maybe an hour. I wont be doing that ever again.
I wonder what caused the bluing? Incorrect install?
I wonder if this mod is different smallblock vs bigblock?
 
after drilling, hole, run a brake hone through bore with oil. to remove any burrs.
Just don't overdo it... the clearance is under .001" and it will be easy to take out too much. I personally would just use some 400 or 600 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper and only in the area of the hole.
 
There is no "less right" or " possibly preventing". Your post is DEAD RIGHT. The correct way to install piston pin snap rings is flat face toward the outside, against the piston and rounded face to the pin. Otherwise, the force exerted
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
against the snap ring from the pin can and will force the pin out of the slot, since the rounded face will allow that.
----this above-------- The oiling holes for floating wrist pins are in the oil ring grooves on every piston I have ever used. I will not use a pressed pin on any performance engine.
 
OK I have one hole drilled. I was going to do the rest but thought I would check for opinions before I proceed.
Hole is ever so slightly off parallel of connecting rod. Not sure if you can tell on pics or not?
Good to go with remaining 7? I have 3 others marked in pic
Thanks guys

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I remember when I got my 440 that was built by an engine shop back around 1988. I was told it had floating pins and when I tore it down it sure did.... steel on steel with no bushings! LOL loose as a goose too after 100 passes. Not how I would do it but it did work. For me, floating pins are more about easy of disassembly and a must have on anything that is raced. I don't know if there is any power gain, I doubt it.
 
I remember when I got my 440 that was built by an engine shop back around 1988. I was told it had floating pins and when I tore it down it sure did.... steel on steel with no bushings! LOL loose as a goose too after 100 passes. Not how I would do it but it did work. For me, floating pins are more about easy of disassembly and a must have on anything that is raced. I don't know if there is any power gain, I doubt it.
MORE ABOUT RELIABILITY, ALL 426 HEMI`S CAME OUT W/ FLOATERS! ExCUSE THE CAPS.
 
Reviving an old thread instead of starting a new one, as I have similar questions.
The 340 I'm doing has 3418645 con rods with bushings in small end. Is it feasible/worth it to drill oil hole on small end THRU the bushing?
How do you tell floating pins vs pressed pins? Pins I have are 2.998" long and 0.984" OD
Thanks!

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Thanks Rob. Od rather revive an old thread vs starting a new one.
I would do this myself as I have access to good drill.presses. 3/16" size.hole?


Just make sure to knock down the burr that you "push through" on the back side when you drill the hole...
 
Thanks guys! I wasnt sure if you had to be 100% parallel to conrod.
I'll continue with the other ones and dress all after. Gotta chamfer them too.

Just don't overdo it... the clearance is under .001" and it will be easy to take out too much. I personally would just use some 400 or 600 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper and only in the area of the hole.

All at the same time is fine and efficient.

Do it with a dry crank and bearings. Place one strip on each journal with the engine flipped upside down. Make sure all bearing shells are properly and fully seated in caps and blocks (and they will crush into place anyway). Just torque all the main caps down (I like to do it in 2-3 steps of increasing torque, like 25, 50, then final ft-lbs), pull them back off, and read it. (Not stupid questions...)

On the front of the block on the driver's side or the driver's side of the block itself?

Just make sure to knock down the burr that you "push through" on the back side when you drill the hole...

Looks fine to me.
 
As far as the pressed fit vs floating pins, there's also a manufacturing concern... Each process has it's difficulties, it's what the assembly plant is better at managing... And the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence...

Either way, the wrist pin can rotate in the piston bore and also slide side-to-side axially within a limited range so it doesn't go outside the piston and score the cylinder... So it's still functional...

On a floating pin, the clips keep the pin from going into the cylinder wall... On a press fit pin, the rod is anchored to the pin and the pin can rotate in the piston bore, and also slide side-to-side in the range allowed by the clearance between the width of the rod and ears of the piston... On a press fit pin, there is an interference fit between the rod bore and wrist pin... On a floating pin, there is a clearance fit between the rod bore and the wrist pin... In both cases, there is a clearance fit between the piston pin bores and the wrist pin which allows the pin to rotate and move axially...

The problems for the assembly plant with the press fit rods are the heater to heat the rod to allow the piston to be pinned requires some attention to keep the temperature proper... Too cold and the pins will hang up and won't pin, and too hot and you burn the rod and weaken it... You want to run the rods at 450° minimum to allow the bores to expand enough to run the pin in... They will turn a "straw" color (light brown) at around 500° - 517° and are still ok to use. You usually burn the rod around 520°-525° F and it turns blue, which allows the micro-structure in the metal of the rod to relax and weaken it - those should be scrapped... If you load too many rods at once, they do not get hot enough because the heater setting is based on how much mass is passing through it at a given time... The first few rods coming out of the heater when the process is started are usually too hot/blue because of the empty space in front of them where there were no rods to soak up some of the heat and the last few out of the heater turn blue because there are empty spaces behind it and they are now overheated... So every time you run a batch of rods through the heater, you have to set the first and last few aside to be scrapped... If there are hiccups in middle of the process and the rods sit too long in the heater, they burn... You have to keep the process going.... But when you get the process running as steady state, you can bang them out one after another...

The problems with floating rods is the wrist pin clips... If you miss one, then the piston pin will walk and score the cylinder bore... When you have to pin hundreds of rods per hour, it's difficult to keep one from missing a clip... Sometimes the clip doesn't properly seat in it's groove and will spring/fly out of the piston after it's done, even though it passes inspection after getting installed... One or two of these happen once in a while... It's easy for us building one engine at a time in our garage to double check, but on the assembly line, you have to keep things moving and don't have time to finger-f*ck every one...
 
yes but you can get them cheaper than that. $3.80 a pop at rock: Sealed Power, not junk.
1968 DODGE DART 5.6L 340cid V8 Piston Pin Bushing | RockAuto

Also converting stock rods to floaters is probably more expensive than buying a set of 8 340 floater rods off this site. Seen them go for $40 a set.

Anyone got any advice using Teflon wrist pin buttons on floaters with no lock grooves? Soft enough not to damage the cylinders, tough enough to survive air cooled VW's...?
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Teflon buttons have been used in everything from vws to Bonneville lsr cars to sprint cars. Aluminum, too.

I like ifloaters for their ease of swapping pistons but pressed.are fine too. The high end nascar Pankl rods i have are floating steel on steel.
 
Sorry for bringing up an old post, but these bushings would be the correct ones to use when converting a set of stock rods to floating?

Scat Enterprises 0.984" ID Wrist Pin Bushing Small Block Mopar
Depends on your meaning of "converting". That is a replacement bushing for a rod which originally was prepped to have a bushing, Unless you intend on resizing the small end of the rod to accept a bushing. That's a lot of metal to take out! That wouldn't thrill me if I was asked to do this!
 
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As far as drilling the top of the rod for pin oiling on floating pins I never have. Even on total race engines turning 7000 plus rpm. Kim
 
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