Gear drive
- Thread starter ganggreen
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mopardude318
Well-Known Member
The only small block gear drive setup I would use is the one from Milodon. I have one on my small block 408. However, I haven't personally heard my engine run, my dad did, and he said it sounded pretty cool! He liked the whine noise it made. As far as block mods, you will have to drill and tap the block for one of the mounting holes on the gear drive mounting plate. Other thing is you will have to shorten the fuel pump eccentric 1/4" of an inch.
http://www.milodon.com/gear-drives/gear-drive-ford-sb-chrys.asp
http://www.milodon.com/gear-drives/gear-drive-ford-sb-chrys.asp
JR
Pissed off senior member.
I installed a CAT one in a 360 that I'm re-rebuilding and the only mods I had to do was grind down 2 spots on the inside of the timing cover then drill and tap a hole in the block. No big deal at all.
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't use a $110 gear drive on my skateboard.
POS Dakota
Anti-Socialist
I've heard the cat gear drives are actually pretty good pieces.
The only geardrives i have heard of being a problem are the pete jackson dual idlers on the big blocks chewing themselves up, but they dont work on a smallblock so that's not an issue.
Price is not a good indicator of whether something is good or bad.
I have payed a lot of money for things in the past that were supposed to be good and sucked.
How much should a thrust plate, cam gear, crank gear and idler cost before you'll use it? I'll sell you one for 800 bucks. It'll be the best one you ever owned! I promise!:-D
Did you degree the cam? - The one I looked at was the "CAT".. just would like to know how close the crank gear is index checked out.
On another note.. I have also spent big bucks on "not so install friendly parts".. yes, required modification to fit. (Non-Mopar)
They say their drive gears are manufactured from 8620
Billet Steel, and CNC machined.
Off shore blanks I assume, hopefully machined in our backyard.
Thank you for all replys so far!
JR
Pissed off senior member.
I haven't gotten that far yet. I don't even have a car to put this motor in so I am not putting a lot of time into this motor right now, I'm just playing around with it as I go. I'm rebuilding a 360, a slant six and a 350 chevy all at the same time so my focus isn't just on the 360 right now.
Badart
Senior Member
I am running one of the CAT gear drives on my Magnum headed 318. I have had no issues so far. After a couple of hundred miles I pulled the motor for a leaking rear seal and I checked the gear drive and shows 0 wear. I think as long as you set it up properly and has good oiling you should have no problems. I like them because you can get your timing exact and don't have to worry about chain stretch and I kind of like the whining.
I have quite a bit of faith in gear drives, because being an industrial mechanic I work with these quite a bit and will outlast many chains if oiled properly. What do you think comes in every cummins that pull you race cars to the track?
I have quite a bit of faith in gear drives, because being an industrial mechanic I work with these quite a bit and will outlast many chains if oiled properly. What do you think comes in every cummins that pull you race cars to the track?
Gary Pavlovich
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I am considering installing a Milodon gear drive in my 340 Dart GT. I am convinced of the gear drive attributes but not so sure if I can tolerate the gear sound.
Do you or anyone have a video/sound byte they could e-mail to me so I can make a subjective decision on the "sound" aspect?
Thank you for your help!
Gary
GTXperience
Orig Stealth Mod
Gary, I don't have a sound byte but have been running the Milodons on my small blocks for nearly 20 years. There are definite pros/cons to them. As far as sound goes, they are not nearly as loud/whiny as applicaions that have thin aluminum covers. The SB timing chain cover dampens quite a bit of the noise. If you like the whine that a gear drive produces, you'll be happy with it.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
yea, I got the gear drive mainly just for the sound...lol
MoparDart68
Well-Known Member
Ah, love that poor-man's supercharger sound. Gear drives do sound pretty cool.
Gary Pavlovich
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Thank you for your reply on the gear drive. I think I will have to hear the Milodon unit in a Mopar small block before I decide which way to go since the amount of acceptible/likeable "whine" is a subjective experience. I have the Milodon unit sitting right next to my Rollmaster timing set so I have the option to go either way.
Based on your lengthy experience with the Milodon, what are the pros and cons?
Thanks again for all your help.
Gary
1967 Dart GT w/340
(12 sec. street cruiser)
1956 Plymouth
402" Poly 318 Stroker motor
GTXperience
Orig Stealth Mod
The lists are short.
Pros:
-Pinpoint timing (especially @ higher RPMs above the 7K range)
-Milodon SB setup can be used on old hemis (33/354/392) as well
-Cool sounding
Cons:
-Robs a little power vs a good double roller chain setup (not really necessary on a setup that doesn't see approx. 7K and above)
-Cost
-Minor additional installation/setup
-Sound may not be pleasing to some (although very quiet compared to other setups)
Pros:
-Pinpoint timing (especially @ higher RPMs above the 7K range)
-Milodon SB setup can be used on old hemis (33/354/392) as well
-Cool sounding
Cons:
-Robs a little power vs a good double roller chain setup (not really necessary on a setup that doesn't see approx. 7K and above)
-Cost
-Minor additional installation/setup
-Sound may not be pleasing to some (although very quiet compared to other setups)
pishta
I know I'm right....
Ran a CAT on a big block 451 and it was fine. Wasnt loud at all, (you can get quiet or loud now) What you do hear is a rrrurrrrurrrurrrurrr with very small fluctuations in RPMs sounding different pitch. ITs not at all annoying to myself, others may object to a solid cam lifter noise too, its all in the ear and how long you've been around rods. CAT tells you to clearance with a piece of newspaper if you are too tight the gears will turn blue with heat when you look at them next (chewing themselves up?) . The do require a close tolerance for the thrust button against the timing cover. Possible hammer time. CAT B/RB is a dual idler so there is a tiny amount of backlash/slop, maybe 1/2 degree, hard to even guess the actual deflection, only seen when you turn the cam left and right on a static motor as the idlers shift back and forth between the thrust sides. WOW, this post is a year old....
pishta
I know I'm right....
Looking at that CAT for $55 on Ebay, it only lacks the Milodon's idlers timing adjustablilty, (multi index crank cog on the CAT) and the torrington thrust bearing (2.5 X 1.75 X .075) between the cam cog and plate to be similiar to the Milodon unit at 12% of the price! (Milodon gear teeth are more crowned too, probably more quiet)
POS Dakota
Anti-Socialist
No, it's not a POS at at all. it just needs a little work to make it perfect is all. It's not a direct bolt on. Search on the forums here, there is a lot of good information on it that myself, Mad Dart, and a few others have contributed on this excellent piece. It has been run in the engine masters too.
The gears are of a very good hardness and quality of steel believe it or not, and the idler gear bearing is freaking STOUT.
Search on it here and read. you'll pick up all the details.
I will give one bit of advice. the one thing on it I would call a design flaw is the right hand threaded idler gear. Unbolt it and put some green, or red locktite on the threads, then torque it back in. Or you can do what I did and cut a keyway in the back of the mounting plate to lock the bolt in place.
Geardrives are stigmatized because they transfer crankshaft vibration. but given all the nice modern parts we have now, this really isnt much of a concern. Some will of course disagree. It's a free country.
I should be starting it up very soon. I'll post it here so you cn hear it...and that's another thing. This geardrive has a pleasant whine. It's not the piercing shriek like a milodon. And this isnt to say the milodon is **** because it isnt. It all depends on what you want. The milodon bolts right in after drilling a hole. This geardrive needs a number of little tweaks, but I think given the price, it was definitely worth figuring out what was required to run it.
Here is mine installed on my 408.
The gears are of a very good hardness and quality of steel believe it or not, and the idler gear bearing is freaking STOUT.
Search on it here and read. you'll pick up all the details.
I will give one bit of advice. the one thing on it I would call a design flaw is the right hand threaded idler gear. Unbolt it and put some green, or red locktite on the threads, then torque it back in. Or you can do what I did and cut a keyway in the back of the mounting plate to lock the bolt in place.
Geardrives are stigmatized because they transfer crankshaft vibration. but given all the nice modern parts we have now, this really isnt much of a concern. Some will of course disagree. It's a free country.
I should be starting it up very soon. I'll post it here so you cn hear it...and that's another thing. This geardrive has a pleasant whine. It's not the piercing shriek like a milodon. And this isnt to say the milodon is **** because it isnt. It all depends on what you want. The milodon bolts right in after drilling a hole. This geardrive needs a number of little tweaks, but I think given the price, it was definitely worth figuring out what was required to run it.
Here is mine installed on my 408.
POS Dakota
Anti-Socialist
Looking at that CAT for $55 on Ebay, it only lacks the Milodon's idlers timing adjustablilty, (multi index crank cog on the CAT) and the torrington thrust bearing (2.5 X 1.75 X .075) between the cam cog and plate to be similiar to the Milodon unit at 12% of the price! (Milodon gear teeth are more crowned too, probably more quiet)
The milodon is louder than the cat.
1BadDodge71
FABO Rice Hater
I was going to get one for my 360,but read all kinds of stuff about the harmonics of the gear drive eventually breaking the cam shaft,losing HP,and them being hard on the valve train.Any of this true?
mjs69gts
Well-Known Member
have installed the milodon in my 340 25 yrs ago and also in my 416 stroker very happy no problems yet
PanGasket
has cork sides
so how would you setup the timing on the CAT unit?
moper
Well-Known Member
All of it. Look for a gear drive on any modern race engine. High powered race engines use timing belts, bracket engines and circle track use top quality chains. Gear drives sound cool, but I really don't trust the cheaper product. There is a reason they are less money. What I fear is it's something we can't see. I use a decent chain or a chain and a tensioner on small blocks. JMO...
MiradaMegaCab
Well-Known Member
Is there enough oil splashed around on the gear drive?
And if not, what oil modifications are recommended?
POS Dakota
Anti-Socialist
No, it's not true. Most have a hard enough time with mismatched and poorply set up valvetrain parts, geardrive aside from it.
Granted there are indeed harmonics transferred from the crank no doubt.
But there is no evidence to support any engine damage whatsoever that I've seen. Engine damage can happen from anything...it's easy to blame it on one thing though.
I know of plenty of engines running in excess of 8000 rpm using geardrives and the people running them love them. People with high competency levels. The same people have never broken anything as a result of a geardrive. I won't drag people into it, but I can point you to people in the know you can ask if you like.
The only time I saw something break with a geardrive it was a cummins putting out over 2000 ft lbs and over 1000 hp. I would say it was operating well beyond parameters when the cast cam broke.
I posted that here the last time this was brought up. No one's had anything to say then...and nothing's changed.
Technology has progressed a lot since the 50s and 60s but old habits of repeating the same old info over and over have stifled that progress and continue to do so.
That I can prove. I can prove it any time someone asks about a geardrive and you hear the same old **** from the same OLD people, and the same old **** comes from people who spend all their time here...talking.
When I was a kid, girls were gross because they all had the cooties...but the first time I got a BJ, i had a different outlook....
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