furz4
Well-Known Member
I am going to run green wheel bearings in my dart and am unsure if I should get the ones with the snap rings or the ones without. Would like to heat what everyone has used . Thanks.-Phil.
Green Bearings
- Thread starter furz4
- Start date
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805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
i decided against going green bearing after figuring that a tapered roller bearing, ie stock, would be alot better than a ball bearing, ie green bearing. i figure this because a tapered roller can with stand all directions of load, where as the ball bearings are really strong in a straight line but suffer greatly in side load strength. and just for thought the stock bearings have lasted in many mopars forever!
I'm with you Moparkid. toolman
demon seed
The Original Demon Seed
I've always used the ones with the snap rings but it probably doesn't matter.
furz4
Well-Known Member
I know the OEM are much stronger. I do plan on doing some gear changing and testing and wanted the greens for easy swapping out centers. I don't expect them to last 40 years like the originals.
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
whats not easy about the stock ones? u just undo the 5 bolts holding the plate and pull?
Wylde1
"No Value Added" Member
Does anyone make a rear disc brake kit where we can keep the tapered bearings and adjuster? All the kits I've seen, we need to switch to the green bearings.
Wylde1.
Wylde1.
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
as far as i know somebody on here used a jeep 8.25 brakes and drilled a 5th hole and some easy other stuff.
furz4
Well-Known Member
There is nothing too difficult about the stock ones but you do need to set your end play each time you change centers especially when going from sure grip to open. It's not a big deal I have the indicator and have done it a few times before. Need bearings and thought I would start out running greens.
If this is going to be a street driven car, the OE tapered bearings are a must for the side load capabilities. Green bearings are for straight line application only and offer no side load protection. Need some firsthand knowledge??? I'll put you in touch with my buddy who "was" running them in his Superbird. Was that is, until he had to change them out twice in one driving season. Or how about my buddy with the 70 Roadrunner, same thing!!! Get the tapered bearings if you're going to live on the street, Geof
moper
Well-Known Member
There are millions of GMs that will dispute that claim...lol. There is nothing wrong with Green bearings, even on road track cars. Tapered bearings are stronger in regard to side loading but they are so over engineered that most cars went 30 years without ever having them re-greased of serviced..lol. I use the ones with the clips and I get them from Cass (DrDiff). I've got them on my stuff and customer's stuff several of whom road race. There are no issues. I have only ever had to replace one side on one car because the seal let go and oil came past it. No failures in regard to the bearing themselves. It does mean the spacer in the dfferential needs to come out. But 1/2 the time they are missing or worn beyond recognition anyway.
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
gm guys also think coil suspensions are superior to torsion bar suspensions! but if the bearing work they work! im just going from a design stand point...
great info being brought up!:read2:
furz4
Well-Known Member
Moper that's exactly what I thought, in fact I would be using the 1974 tapered bearings on this rear but I removed them before I sent the axles to Moser to be cut and re-splined. Turned out I could have left them on for that operation.
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
It seems funny to me if the Green bearings are so bad that the Ford 9" rearends that use sealed roller bearings (green bearing style) last well over 100,000 miles on their trucks. In fact I have a buddy that has a 76 Ford and at nearly 200,000 miles he had to replace the originals the first time. He bought the truck new so he knows they were original. BTW: That truck pulled a camper to Texas and back several times so it's had it share of use. I personally think the stuff about green bearings being junk for street is bunk. Yes the tapered bearings are most likely stronger but as Moper says their way over engineered. Take it as you will. JMO
If sealed bearings worked so well, why did Ford go away from them and onto a tapered bearing? This is a '79 Ford Bronco 9" rear and axle, with stock tapered bearings.
Ford changed the design because the earlier Ford 9's are known for having their axles walk out of the housings under heavy load.
The tapered bearing design is the superior design. Will a sealed bearing work? Sure. But if the ball-type bearing fails under side load, what happens to your axle? I've seen more than one fender trashed when a green bearing let go.
The stockers take a couple minutes extra to adjust. They last just about forever, and they cost about the same as a green bearing set. Why change them to an inferior design, even if it does work for most people?
Ford changed the design because the earlier Ford 9's are known for having their axles walk out of the housings under heavy load.
The tapered bearing design is the superior design. Will a sealed bearing work? Sure. But if the ball-type bearing fails under side load, what happens to your axle? I've seen more than one fender trashed when a green bearing let go.
The stockers take a couple minutes extra to adjust. They last just about forever, and they cost about the same as a green bearing set. Why change them to an inferior design, even if it does work for most people?
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
i don't know. i have the same green bearings that have been in my dart since the mid 90's with no problems. my car was used as a daily driver for years back then and it has the crap beat out of it when every time i drive it. jamies dart has had green bearings in it got about 4 years now and we have had no issues, i have had green bearings in a few other cars over the years also with no issues.
maybe whoever put the bearings in that went through two sets in one season did something wrong? i see the same argument every time the green bearings come up and have to laugh.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
back to the OP's question. one is definatley better then the other. i just forget which it is.
Demon 408
Well-Known Member
Here's a great post from the archives:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=6039
Looks like Mosers recomends the bearing with the clip.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=6039
Looks like Mosers recomends the bearing with the clip.
Well Joe, The guy with the Superbird is a well known Mopar enthusiast here and the Roadrunner owner is the brother of a very good mechanic who has been working on Mopars for years. Mike (the mechanic) has had his cars in countless publications and Milton (the Superbird owner) has as well. That doesn't mean that they can't make a mistake installing parts, but the Green bearing install is pretty straight forward. Mike set up the rearend in my GTX and it's still going strong after 10 years, but no Green bearings!!! When I first had him set it up, i asked if I should use the Green bearings, he showed me the remains of the bearings that were removed from his brothers Roadrunner and advised me to use the stock bearings. I researched the Green bearings recently, and the description clearly states that they are engineered for straight line performance applications and not street use. Can you use whatever bearing you like?? Of course!!! Will the Green bearings last?? Probably!!! But I have seen firsthand the failure of the Green bearings, but I don't recall ever seeing a tapered bearing fail due to side load pressure. Now, an outer seal failure, sure!!!
To the OP, run whatever you are comfortable with, i'm just pointing out the possibilities, and no offense taken or given either way!!! Good luck with your project, Geof
To the OP, run whatever you are comfortable with, i'm just pointing out the possibilities, and no offense taken or given either way!!! Good luck with your project, Geof
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
a mopar enthusiast for years huh. you know how many enthusiasts that i know that have no clue on how to change a spark plug? being in a magazine means nothing either. neither does being a brother of a mechanic. you know of three cases out of millions of bearings out there. there had to be some serious problems to go through two sets in one year. something wasn't right with the install, now if it was over a few years maybe there is something to it but two sets in one year is telling me there is something more then just the bearings wrong here. come on think about that for a minute. its the same with anything else out there. i've seen the pics of broken eagle rods. does that mean they are all junk? no, i know quite a few people that never had a problem with them. seen pics of broken lokar cables. doesn't mean they are junk, mp short blocks,440 source parts...etc...etc...etc... you never know what someone did when they were installing the parts. without the entire truth (which the installer never seems to let out..lol) . i personally know quite a few people running green bearings myself included in multiple cars that put a ton of miles on their cars a year and have never had a problem.
I can tell you that these guys are pretty hard on their cars, and know the wrench very well. They are not magazine posers by any means. You may remember the "Hang Ten" Dart that Mike had in the Collectors guide and Mopar Muscle. He got it when a friend was contracted to tear down a garage and haul everything away. Inside the garage was a Hang Ten Dart with 17,000 some miles on it. And Uncle Milty's Superbird is also made to resemble a Nascar replica from the era.
I never said the Green bearings were junk, just that they are not designed for street applications where they will receive a lot of side load. Even the manufacturer states that in their description!!! That doesn't mean that you can't use them on the street, heck, I see all manner of race applications on the street during the Woodward Dream Cruise!!! My point is that they are not designed for side load application, and given the choice I think the OP would be better off with a product that was designed for the application he will be using it for. If he's going to do a lot of street driving, IMO the tapered bearing will suit his application better than a Green bearing setup will.
And again Joe, I'm glad that you have had good luck with the Green bearing setup, and I know countless others have as well, and it is up to the OP to decide which bearing to use. We are each giving our opinions and that is what the OP asked for. Our opinions may differ, but that doesn't mean that either of us is wrong, no??? Now, on with the show!!! Geof
I never said the Green bearings were junk, just that they are not designed for street applications where they will receive a lot of side load. Even the manufacturer states that in their description!!! That doesn't mean that you can't use them on the street, heck, I see all manner of race applications on the street during the Woodward Dream Cruise!!! My point is that they are not designed for side load application, and given the choice I think the OP would be better off with a product that was designed for the application he will be using it for. If he's going to do a lot of street driving, IMO the tapered bearing will suit his application better than a Green bearing setup will.
And again Joe, I'm glad that you have had good luck with the Green bearing setup, and I know countless others have as well, and it is up to the OP to decide which bearing to use. We are each giving our opinions and that is what the OP asked for. Our opinions may differ, but that doesn't mean that either of us is wrong, no??? Now, on with the show!!! Geof
The ones with the snap ring are the newer design. I have both and haven't had any problems with either.
redfastback
Don't ask me... my garage is empty
How many folks here with green bearings actually subject them to hard side load? We are talking hard cornering REPEATEDLY. That is gonna be VERY few. My experience is first hand. I have NEVER had a problem with them. I run into so many people that think they know how to wrench, but when I have seen them wrench, they would be fired from any reputable shop for their archaic, and incorrect ways. I take pride in researching all products I put into my customers cars. I have seen countless times where parts failure is due to installation.
JMHO.....
JMHO.....
Well, I can tell you that my GTX has a tendency to "walk" into oncoming traffic when I'm doing a burnout. Couple that with the 50 or so burnouts I do each year at the Helluva Cruise here in my hometown, and times that by the number of cruises I go to each year like Woodward and the Nats, where I may be down there for 8 or 9 hours. I did so many burnouts at the Helluva cruise last year that I tore a balljoint out!!! I'm giving my car plenty of extreme sideload. Would I be the extreme case? The Roadrunner owner is even harder on his car than I am, repeatedly subjecting his car to over the limit conditions that wreak havoc on his car and parts.
Why are you guys so down on the OE tapered bearings, because you have to set them up and adjust the endplay?? Thats rearend 101!! IMO, If you are working on a complex system of mechanical engineering such as our beloved old Mopars, you should be able to do setups, refurbishment of parts and assemblies, and be able to comprehend and understand the procedure to get the job done right!!! Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of you can't do the setup correctly, I'm sure you all can, but give me the best reason you can think of to change to the Green bearing. It's not cheaper, it's not designed for side loads typically found in street driven cars, and it still needs someone who knows how to install them and remove the OE pieces.
My opinion stands, The Green bearing is designed with straight line performance application in mind, and the OE setup is designed for all conditions. I stand behind the OE for the street and the Green for a mostly strip application. You all can be mean and mad at me if you want, I'm just offering my opinion to the OP. Y'all can run whatever you want, they're your cars after all!!! Geof
Why are you guys so down on the OE tapered bearings, because you have to set them up and adjust the endplay?? Thats rearend 101!! IMO, If you are working on a complex system of mechanical engineering such as our beloved old Mopars, you should be able to do setups, refurbishment of parts and assemblies, and be able to comprehend and understand the procedure to get the job done right!!! Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of you can't do the setup correctly, I'm sure you all can, but give me the best reason you can think of to change to the Green bearing. It's not cheaper, it's not designed for side loads typically found in street driven cars, and it still needs someone who knows how to install them and remove the OE pieces.
My opinion stands, The Green bearing is designed with straight line performance application in mind, and the OE setup is designed for all conditions. I stand behind the OE for the street and the Green for a mostly strip application. You all can be mean and mad at me if you want, I'm just offering my opinion to the OP. Y'all can run whatever you want, they're your cars after all!!! Geof
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
If sealed bearings worked so well, why did Ford go away from them and onto a tapered bearing? This is a '79 Ford Bronco 9" rear and axle, with stock tapered bearings.
Ford changed the design because the earlier Ford 9's are known for having their axles walk out of the housings under heavy load.
The tapered bearing design is the superior design. Will a sealed bearing work? Sure. But if the ball-type bearing fails under side load, what happens to your axle? I've seen more than one fender trashed when a green bearing let go.
The stockers take a couple minutes extra to adjust. They last just about forever, and they cost about the same as a green bearing set. Why change them to an inferior design, even if it does work for most people?
Your right it doesn't take long at all to set the stock type up and if they don't need changed why do it? I never told the guy he had to use or should use sealed bearings, did I? I just stated my observations.
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