Really? I was not aware of that. I like Rick a lot. But he's wrong about that, IMO.
Green Wheel bearing help
- Thread starter BobbyY
- Start date
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Really? I was not aware of that. I like Rick a lot. But he's wrong about that, IMO.
I took a read at the engineersedge post, above. But my question remains - since I've never seen a cutaway (nor an adequate description) of the 'green' bearings, what type of ball bearing are they? According to the chart in that link 'deep groove' ball bearing look like they would work well. But I don't know if they are 'deep groove' ball bearings. Does anyone here for a fact know what they are inside? Are they the same as the ball type used in the 60s on some Fords and Mopars?
They are the same type single row bearings that have been used on the rear of cars for a very long time. I've never cut one apart, but I suspect they are the deep groove type bearings described. Were they not, I would imagine we'd be reading about a lot more failures, which we are not. A deep groove bearing simply means that the balls run in a groove both in the inner and outer races, which I feel sure the green bearings have.
Okay, thank you. I've done a little more looking around and I found this and it appears to coincide with what you (and some others) are saying.
http://www.doctordiff.com/blog/tech-info/why-green-bearings/
http://www.doctordiff.com/blog/tech-info/why-green-bearings/
Learn sumffin new everyday cause I didn't even think the older style (RP 400) was still bein made. lol
Summit Racing carries both, and oddly enough the older ones are literally 2X the price (well maybe not too odd, since Mopar is the distributor).
That kinda figures. I remember when they had what they called "good guy" pricing. But that's a distant memory. lol
Again, not exactly a fair comparison.
THOUSANDS of GM vehicles tossed axle shafts out of the housing when their C clip design failed.
The GM axle bearings were not all ball bearing, the ones I am familiar with are roller bearing with at least 5x the contact surface as any NON adjustable replacement for the 8 3/4" axle. The 8.25 Chrysler also used a roller bearing setup. Again, much greater contact area.
I've read of people using Ford axle housing ends on an 8 3/4" axle to use their non adjustable roller bearing setup.
I have ran the NON adjustable bearings in my Charger for years and in 9000 miles, my second set needs replacement. I like a good handling car and these bearings just do not hold up to that kind of use.
Guys that just putt-putt around may not have a problem with these bearings. How much lateral force can you generate with 15" Rally wheels and a 225-70-15 anyway?
I've never seen one single GM c clip rear axle that EVER had a ball bearing. All of them I've ever serviced (an ASSLOAD over about 30 years) were non tapered rollers. Millions of vehicles have used the ball bearing green bearings on the rear of front wheel drive cars. Single row, ball bearings JUST like a damned green bearing. Come up with all the excuses you want, that's the fact.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
in the early days his stuff was decent. these days he seems to have an agenda against anything that isn't his idea. he kinda jumped the shark years ago in my opinion.
Yeah, because FRONT wheel drive commuter cars are so hard on axle bearings....
Seriously?
Comparing a 3200 lb commuter FRONT wheel drive car with a rear, NON drive beam axle to a classic 3800 lb REAR wheel drive car....:wack:
Rick E is right. Try taking a corner at above the speed limit and see how long the cheap bearings last.
Cornering and handling is a hard sell to most Mopar guys that love their straight line action.
Pick me out an A body that weighs 3800 pounds. I can pick out LOTS of front wheel drive cars that do. Go argue with yourself because you're just wrong.
DoctorDiff
Well-Known Member
GM, Chrysler and Ford C-CLIP rears use straight ROLLER bearings that ride directly on the axle shaft.
Millions of GM, Chrysler and Ford NON C-CLIP (retained wheel bearing type) rears came stock with sealed, single row ball wheel bearings.
Single row ball bearings are MORE common in OEM retained wheel bearing applications than the tapered roller type. I never said ball wheel bearings were stronger than tapered roller wheel bearings.
Most people will never notice a functional difference between the 2 designs.
Millions of GM, Chrysler and Ford NON C-CLIP (retained wheel bearing type) rears came stock with sealed, single row ball wheel bearings.
Single row ball bearings are MORE common in OEM retained wheel bearing applications than the tapered roller type. I never said ball wheel bearings were stronger than tapered roller wheel bearings.
Most people will never notice a functional difference between the 2 designs.
Since my 'green' bearings were installed at least 15 years ago (though probably have fewer than 3K miles on them) I suppose I have the early design and should at least upgrade to the newer design?
Inertia
Well-Known Member
In 40+ years of servicing vehicles,, I have replaced about 2 dozen worn out front tapered wheel brgs... apprx $20 a set..
In the last 10 yrs I have replaced at least that many front (ball bearing) hubs, plus a coupla rear hubs.. avg $120 each..
I've come to the conclusion that the ball brgs don't last as long as tapered roller bearings,, perhaps cuz the "hubs" can't be serviced (repacked), but not sure I believe that... jmo
In the last 10 yrs I have replaced at least that many front (ball bearing) hubs, plus a coupla rear hubs.. avg $120 each..
I've come to the conclusion that the ball brgs don't last as long as tapered roller bearings,, perhaps cuz the "hubs" can't be serviced (repacked), but not sure I believe that... jmo
Do you think it would be wise for me to upgrade from the older type to the newer type of 'green' bearings? And can you tell me what would need to change - if anything?
BigBlockMopar
BigBlockMember
A little over 2 years I installed a pair of new stock rear axles with Green bearings in my daily A-body.
Now just recently I started noticing some noises during tight corners taken at speed.
After checking the axle play I found a little too much sideplay to my liking.
Removing the axles and checking the bearing revealed that they are worn out and due for replacing.
Now, overhere I have an abnormal amount of roundabouts to tackle every day during my daily commute.
This fact, and perhaps a slightly too tight measurement on my axlehousing narrowing (C to A-body width) could have caused the premature wear of the Greens.
Nonetheless I will be replacing the bearings with original tapered bearings pretty soon (hoping the axlehousing is close enough to spec to still be able to properly adjust the bearings without having the grind down the axles).
Now just recently I started noticing some noises during tight corners taken at speed.
After checking the axle play I found a little too much sideplay to my liking.
Removing the axles and checking the bearing revealed that they are worn out and due for replacing.
Now, overhere I have an abnormal amount of roundabouts to tackle every day during my daily commute.
This fact, and perhaps a slightly too tight measurement on my axlehousing narrowing (C to A-body width) could have caused the premature wear of the Greens.
Nonetheless I will be replacing the bearings with original tapered bearings pretty soon (hoping the axlehousing is close enough to spec to still be able to properly adjust the bearings without having the grind down the axles).
acpat
Well-Known Member
lol thats why circle track cars with 9 inch rearends use a tapered bearing rusty......oh wait yep 9 inch ford used a green bearing and they like this debate go round and round and round putting ungodly amounts of side loads on the bearings. If rick started it it was because he had a butt load of them he wanted to sell.
I'm not sure I follow you. I know you're being sarcastic, but it's difficult to read without proper punctuation. Are you saying that Rick E. started this debate? He didn't, he just made his thoughts known on the subject. I'm not his lawyer, but I think he's allowed to do that. I don't think that the debate is over whether a tapered bearing is better than a ball bearing for this application - because I think that's settled ... it is. The debate is really over whether the ball type is adequate or not. I had not posted in months as you can see, and nobody ever answered my last question as to whether or not replacing the older type of Green bearing I have now with the latter type is worth my effort.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
ran green bearing in my dart for well over a decade with no issues. rear will go into another abody sooner or later and those same green bearings will be on the axles..
Just put my green bearing equipped 8 3/4 rear into the dart in my sig. Those bearings have been on those axles since about 1994. Car has been a daily driver for numerous different owners. Been beat the hell out of at the track and hey are still going strong.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't replace until I saw a problem. I would hope everyone goes over their car atleast once a year. I'm sure you'll notice an issue during those checks.
Thanks.
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
"They are absolutely nowhere near as durable as the factory style tapered bearings manufactured by the TIMKEN corporation. They will never last 100,000 miles like the Timkens. They will not last if you enjoy road racing or any type of cornering"
This is so ridiculous I can't stand that stuff like this gets on the board and people believe it.
I've been road racing with these for years without issue. Besides if a ball bearing is good enough for every performance car in the world pretty much (including Corvettes), (they road race too I think), why aren't they good enough for guys with specialty cars?
This is so ridiculous I can't stand that stuff like this gets on the board and people believe it.
I've been road racing with these for years without issue. Besides if a ball bearing is good enough for every performance car in the world pretty much (including Corvettes), (they road race too I think), why aren't they good enough for guys with specialty cars?
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