has spark and fuel, wont start.

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kielbasavw

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I just converted from points to the later model electronic ignition box/distributor, and had it running bitchen. shut it off and turned it on several times. I come out a couple hours later to go out to my clubs cruise night and the car wont start. I checked for spark and its there. There is fuel in the filter, and even tried Carb spray down the carb. Very rarely I will get a cough like it wants to start. But nothing. I cracked the old brittle ballast resistor while pulling the terminal off, but it worked when I first fired it up. I'm not sure whats wrong, there is fuel and spark but no fire
 
with spark and fuel good. not much more to check. maybe your distributor wiggled loose and your timing is so far off it wont fire. if you have spark that should mean power is getting through everywhere but i guess you could try bypassing the ballast with a wire just to test if its fried or not.
 
Pull a couple plugs and see what they look like, having fire and gas sounds like your plugs are not doing there job, Where are you checking the spark at ?
If they are gas fouled from a cold start they will not ignite your fuel.
Yes I have been here before and the spark was there but no detonation, and a coil has a mind of it's own when it wants to get week. what color spark are you seeing ?
 
I did not change coils. I checked spark from plug wires.. haven't pulled a plug yet but will tomorrow. I'm on a trip from Orange county to Sacramento to pick up some rims called chaparalls for my 55 oval window vw. Then taking the coast back home
 
So when i grabbed the dist when it was bolted down, it seemed loose, when I twist the motor the whole dist would lean one way. I could swear it wasn't like that before. Any ideas
 
Is there suppose to be a seal around the shaft. There is a groove about a 1/4 inch wide between the gear and bracket.
 
okay everybody, i have changed the balast resistor, the coil, tried gapping the magnetic pickup. i lost spark from the plugs (coming out of distributor) but i have spark going in from the coil. would this mean that the external electronic box went bad, or the inside of the distributor.

it has new cap and rotor, plugs and wires. i am stumped.
 
kielbasavw said:
okay everybody, i have changed the balast resistor, the coil, tried gapping the magnetic pickup. i lost spark from the plugs (coming out of distributor) but i have spark going in from the coil. would this mean that the external electronic box went bad, or the inside of the distributor.

it has new cap and rotor, plugs and wires. i am stumped.
Click to expand...

STOP THROWING PARTS at the problem, and start using your head

With electronic ignition, it is a "little" difficult to create a flow chart but generally:

The reluctor and pickup must be in good shape, I.E. the reluctor star must not be chewed up from hitting the pickup. Additionally, the gap cannot be too large. There is some evidence, over on other "places" that maybe some of the reluctors are losing magnetism or otherwise going bad.

GAP THE RELUCTOR carefully, then take a digi meter on AC volts and crank the engine, see if it puts out about 1V AC (AC volts)

You HAD spark at least once, so this should mean that PROBABLY the ballast, the coil, and the box, are all OK

Pull the coil wire FROM THE COIL. Take a clip lead or test lamp and GRO
UND the clip, crank the engine WITH THE KEY (need a helper) and stick the probe of your clip near the coil tower. You should get a nice blue "rythmic' spark as the engine cranks.

If so, you have a bad coil wire, rotor, wires, or cap

If not, then you still have a problem with the reluctor/ pickup, the box, the coil, OR THE SUPPLY VOLTAGE

Probably the next thing to do before we go any further is find out

"do you have the older 5 pin ECU"

or "do you have the newer 4 pin ECU?"
 
well i got the balast and coil for free, yes they are new and good parts.. lol the balast came from a msd kit that he didnt use, and coil is blue streak. anyways

its the 5 prong box. one wire is not used. also it was kinda hard tryin to gap the pickup, because the shaft as a hair of play, but they are not chewed up or anything from rubbing. the plastic box around the magnetic tip that is .008 from the star wheel is loose. just wierd it ran, and now it doesnt after sitting a couple hours...
 
kielbasavw said:
i got the balast and coil forfree,
Click to expand...

Ok, you're forgiven


kielbasavw said:
they are new and good parts.. lol the balast came from a msd kit that he didnt use, and coil is blue streak
Click to expand...

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking that "new" or unused means "good"


kielbasavw said:
its the 5 prong box. one wire is not used. ..
Click to expand...

If one wire is not used it's a so called "4 prong" box, and should have a two prong resistor. Normally, an original 5 prong box will have a 4 prong resistor. The confusion is, that an older system with a 4 prong resistor can ALSO use the newer 4 prong box, but NOT the other way around. An older 5 prong box MUST have a 4 prong resistor


kielbasavw said:
the plastic box around the magnetic tip that is .008 from the star wheel is loose. just wierd it ran, and now it doesnt after sitting a couple hours...
Click to expand...

I'd be replacing the pickup coil, and regapping the thing. You MAY have a badly worn distributor.

Generic diagram of (older) 5 pin ECU, with 4 pin resistor. The bottom connection of the resistor, jumpered across is the ign feed from your ignition switch

js005.jpg


the newer "4 pin" ECU, and by the way, you cannot tell by looking at the ECU. It may have 4 or 5 pins, and still be a 4 pin ECU

e-ign1.gif
 
Sounds familiar to a problem I had. I took the mopar electronic ignition out and replaced it with a Accel ignition system. I had to discard the ballast. The car would run sometimes but then again it wouldn't crank. I had fire at the plugs when I checked it while turning it over but it would not crank or stay running. I did some head scratching ...... so I tied the blue and brown wires together, hooked that to the hot for the ignition system, and the car fired immediately. Been driving like that for over three yrs now with no problems.
 
I think ill buy a rebuilt dist from tops auto, local parts shop I use to work at and try it. It's 65 bucks, but if it still doesn't work, ill try to find another box and take the dist back lol.
 
okay, i changed back to the points distributor, and the same thing.... but now i found out that i am getting spark coming out of the cap, pulled a wire, and held it near and we got spark!. but my indicator light thing that checks spark does not go off when up against the wire.

maybe i have it a couple teeth off or something since i pulled the dist out so many times, i forgot to mark where the rotor was pointing, and my crank pulley is hard to read where the timing notch is.... its kind of banged up. is there a way to figure out where the real notch actually is? the pulley has some kind of machined spot on the edge, like half a circle. maybe this will help? but i know all the other cars ive tried timing, no mater where the dist is. it will either pop, fire, or allow the thing to have a hard time cranking. this thing does absoultely nothing.
 
Seems to me you are chasing your tail, so get down to the basics. All this throwing parts around is confusing the issue.

You need the following for an engine to run:

Compression:

So buy, borrow, or otherwise get a compression gauge and
see what you actually have

Fuel.

You must have fuel. Not fuel that has been in the tank for a year, fresh fuel.
You can substitute starting fluid, or KNOWN fresh fuel sparingly squirted down
the carb throat for testing

Spark:

Must have enough (good hot) spark AT THE END OF THE PLUGS and
AT THE RIGHT TIME So get or make a positive stop out of a spark plug,
and actually check the timing marks. I've posted this here until I'm blue.
Real easy to do, and doesn't take very long.

Then pull no1 plug, and since the plugs are so deep on that engine, device a
piece of hose, wood, etc to reach in and "feel" for compression, or use your
gauge you just bought. AS YOU START to feel compression, rotate the
engine and watch for the marks to come up. This will be no1 "ready to fire"
and you can drop in the dist. You may have to bump it further to get the oil
pump drive lined up, then bring the marks "back up" and adjust the dist so
either the points just opened at about 5-10BTC, or line the reluctor up with
the pickup coil center if using breakerless. IF YOU DO THIS CORRECTLY it
should start as if it had been parked overnight.

Other posts on checking timing marks:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=121653&highlight=piston+stop

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=112491&highlight=piston+stop&page=2

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=119643&highlight=piston+stop


SPARK PLUGS: Did you ever check the plugs, and CHECK FOR SPARK by
using a removed plug if any question as to condition

If the above steps don't give results, and especially if the compression is low, suspect valve trouble. I don't know the history of the engine, maybe the valves are way out of adjustment, or maybe the cam drive is worn out and has "slipped." So at this point it's probably time to pull the valve cover. Check the valves, you're better off "loose" than too tight. A quick check for valve timing (slipped cam drive) is to bring up the timing marks carefully. On one revolution both no 1 valves will be closed. Rotate the engine 1 turn, bring the marks up again. This time both valves should be "close to" or "at" what is known as "split overlap" which means that one valve is opening, the other closing, and they should be close to equally open. NOTICE that this was an "old standard" that does not work on many modern engines with "smog" camshafts or hot valve grinds, because nowadays, cam timing does not result in a 'split overlap' condition.

Anyway, if the valve timing doesn't seem reasonable, you probably have the cam a tooth or more off due to wear.
 
i checked, and i infact have spark at the plug, the plugs seemed a little gassy, so i cleaned them, and letting them air out for a bit. hopefully this is it. only the last thing that makes sense, that when the motor turned cold, it wont start.
 
Well still not running, I checked spark out of coil and it is yellow. So I'm guessing its a weak spark. I swapped it back to the electronic setup I do get spark out of plug but seems weak. But seems weak from straight out of the coil
 
kielbasavw said:
Well still not running, I checked spark out of coil and it is yellow. So I'm guessing its a weak spark. I swapped it back to the electronic setup I do get spark out of plug but seems weak. But seems weak from straight out of the coil
Click to expand...

Please re-read my post and stop throwing parts at this problem. If you cannot get it running with a basic points distributor, you have problems

You say yellow? How did you check it? Often, if you use the coil wire, it WILL be yellow because of the resistor coil wire. A BETTER way to check spark is to use a clip lead or test lamp

Ground the clip of one end of the clip lead or test lamp, and remove the coil wire FROM THE COIL. Use the clip lead, held at the top of the coil tower, to check your spark. Because the clip lead/ test lamp is grounded, it will not shock you.

Using this, you should be able to get at least 3/8", nice, blue spark. NOTE that if you do this with the key in RUN and while jumpering the solenoid, you will NOT be getting "full spark" because the ballast resistor is still in circuit

In other words, you are in a "run" condition.

To get around this, either use a partner and have them twist the key to start, which will bypass the ballast, or use a clip lead directly to the coil positive.

So far as your contact points dist. here is what you need for a good spark:

A good coil

Good 12V right to the coil +

Good points, set properly

Last, a good condenser in the distributor. Condensers do not ONLY keep points from burning. They also form the spark in partner with the coil. Engines, in general, will not start or run without a condenser
 
i have the blue/yellow wire yellow wire hooked up to the side that has constant power on the balast, while the key is on, is this correct?
 
a friend has been helping me doing research, and found a 10 page post somewhere that explains how to convert. he was telling me i NEED the 4 pin resistor. whats weird is that i worked just fine with the 2 pin resistor for a good while. and just stopped working after sitting for a few hours. anyways, if this is the case that i need the 4 pin resistor, should the box still be okay? i mean i get spark out of the plug, just seems very weak? would this make sense to do so?
 
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