Headlights - Black Crystal question

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David D Schnelker

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Has anyone had any experience w/ black crystal headlights? I installed the regular (chrome/silver) reflector headlights on my Satellite and they're a huge improvement over stock Halogen light's. Now I see these new 7" Black crystal headlights for Dusters and such. But cannot find any conclusive info on them. My brain says black absorbs light and therefore they'd suck really bad. But crystal is highly reflective - So that offsets the black absorbing? Are they just for looks? I gotta admit - they do look pretty cool.
 
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Any black color on either the lens or the reflector will reduce the output of light. That is simply science. The black look is an appearance gimmick — no more, no less.
 
Any black color on either the lens or the reflector will reduce the output of light. That is simply science. The black look is an appearance gimmick — no more, no less.
Yeah bro, sorry I wasn't very clear about that it wasn't the lense that was black and that do I understand what the science is behind the color black absorbing light. It was the crystal surface in the back of the bulb that the manufacturer was claiming to be brighter than normal halogen bulbs. And that I was looking for someone who had actually tried these headlights out. Today, I finally found someone who did buy em... He said that the crystal reflective coating over the black part does cause the lights to shine extra bright just as the manufacturer claims, but.... and here's the kicker, only in certain places...And that it was extra bright, but a splotchy light beam/pattern making it impossible for the headlight to be adjusted up or down or even left or right. Apparently both high and low beams are blinding (in some spots/places) to oncoming traffic, or high up in the treetops, or down at the curbside next to the front of the car. In other words - they're a really bad idea. Even dangerous maybe. Thanks for taking the time write and share your thoughts on the subject - You're right - it's 100% an appearance gimmick.
 
Pics or links are gonna help a lot here. Harley has been using blackout bulbs for years now, but it's strictly a styling maneuver
 
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Yeah, that black bit is just cosmetic. The 'dot' in the center is just a block to limit glare from seeing the bulb directly.
@slantsixdan is, literally, one of the most knowledgeable people on the planet when it comes to automotive lighting. He'll be along to poopoo on these shortly.
 
View attachment 1716338276

Yeah, that black bit is just cosmetic. The 'dot' in the center is just a block to limit glare from seeing the bulb directly.
@slantsixdan is, literally, one of the most knowledgeable people on the planet when it comes to automotive lighting. He'll be along to poopoo on these shortly.
That's not them - The ones I were looking at, are black in the very back part. It's jet black in the only place that these (the ones you posted here) are crystal or chrome color. They're like the reverse of the ones u show here. I wish I knew how to get that pic here but I'm not that computer savy. Ahh- I did it. These are the ones I was talking about - I talked to a guy who actually bought them... if u go back a little in the conversations you can read what he told me about them. It wasn't good. LOL Anyway - I just went ahead and bought some from Octane Lighting. It's the same company where l got the blue halos for my Satellite 4 years ago and they still work great. Not the cheapest and not the most expensive - but very good.

s-l1600.jpg
 
But crystal is highly reflective
There is no crystal present in these "headlamps". The "reflectors" are black plastic, and the lenses are poor-quality glass. That word "crystal" is used for marketing promotion, not to refer to anything real.

Hit the brakes, dude. Throw it in reverse and nail the gas; you're on the wrong road. Those are not headlamps, they are gumball-machine-grade trinkets from China. Not capable of providing even minimally adequate amounts of light for a quick run to the store in a well-lit suburb, let alone enough light to keep you out of a crash on a dark road.

That description applies to everything (each and every single item) offered by "Octane Lighting" and "Dapper Lighting" and numerous other vendors. Keep this crap off your car if you ever drive it after dark. And that's without even getting into the hideous danger caused by other-than-white-or-yellow light facing front. Red light from your front lights is a severely bad crash begging to happen.

Disregarding the mountain of garbage on the market, there are a lot of good options across a pretty wide price range, and soon there will be more/better. Stick to actual, real headlamps made by legitimate companies. Some suggestions are here and here.
 
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Hey, Hi, I can tell you're very passionate about this subject and I appreciate your input. I really value everyone here greatly. Not sure where u got your info, but you're incorrect about some of what you said...Octane Lighting in particular. All of their headlights are real glass - thick/heavy glass w/highly reflective backing. I know this because I speak from first hand experience. I put 4 Silvania Xenon charged Halo bulbs (Sylvania is %100 legitimate Co.) from Octane lighting on my Satellite 4 years ago and they still work great - way, way, better/brighter than the stock halogen bulbs. In fact Sylvania EXE Xenon are not only the brightest street legal gas charged bulbs sold in America, but Sylvania H4 GOLD are the highest rated bulbs sold by AutoZone, NAPA, and Oreily's... just to mention a few common, but legitimate retailers who carry them. I think I already said, Octane has real glass bulb housings w/replaceable Silvania H4 Xenon elements/bulbs on the inside. I personally don't consider $45 - per headlight cheap. But that's just me. I understand really don't like Octane and that's not for you... you've made that very clear. I'll add another message if the quality has changed/got worse - Maybe you're %100 right and they're now. I never thought about that...I've already bought them though, so, I hope they're not cheap junk now. I've never bought 7" bulbs from them, but my friend did his 67 cuda a few months after I did my Satellite - I think that car has a single bulb on each side, so should be 7" too. And as far as I know, his are still good too.
 
While you may have found a product that performs as advertised, I would trust Dan. Since you already have product in hand, give it a try, but be sure that brighter for you doesn't mean unsafe for everyone else on the road.
He's more than passionate, Lighting is his business. He is part of the management at DVN, & as a lighting consultant on his own, has dealt directly with manufacturers & NHTSA. He deals with actual specifications and test results, not advertisement hyperbole.
Events & Studies - DVN
I for one am glad that classic cars are also a hobby of his and he has been willing to share professional knowledge here.
 
you're incorrect about some of what you said...Octane Lighting in particular.

I really am not.

All of their headlights are real glass

The lens material is wayyyyyyy far down the list of what determines whether a headlamp is legit or not. There are excellent headlamps with polycarbonate (plastic) lenses, and terrible headlamps with glass ones.

I know this because I speak from first hand experience.

Okeh, and I know what I'm talking about because it's my job to know what I'm talking about. If my information about car lights starts being incorrect, I very quickly stop being able to buy groceries and heat my house. Obviously that won't happen if I start posting nonsense on here, but talking about car lights on here is just a byproduct of what I do in the real world.

I don't want to get in any kind of a dick-swinging contest, but I am a world-renowned expert in this field. I'm talkin' facts here—quite apart from opinions. That means the answers you get from me might not be the ones you wanted, but they damn sure will be the ones you needed, every single time. Follow my advice or don't, at your option, but.

I put 4 Silvania Xenon charged Halo bulbs (Sylvania is %100 legitimate Co.)

Yeah, 100% legitimate? Sylvania got spanked to the tune of thirty million(!) dollars for false and misleading "upgrade" claims for their Silver Star bulbs (see here) and a large proportion of their car bulb product line is flat-out illegal because they ruin the performance of whatever lamp they're installed in. But they're highly saleable, and there are legal loopholes that allow them to get away with it, and that's how to maximize shareholder returns, so that's what they do.

Fact is, any of the bulbs claiming to produce "extra white" light (or super white, hyper white, platinum white, metal white, xenon white, etc) as its main promotional "benefit" is best avoided. It doesn't matter whose name is on the bulb—Sylvania SilverStar/Ultra or ZxE, Philips BlueVision or CrystalVision, Wagner TruView, anything from PIAA or Hoen,, Nokya, Polarg, etc.—all the same scam. They have a blue-tinted glass, which changes the light color a little, but blocks light that would reach the road if the glass weren't tinted, so they give you _less_ light than ordinary bulbs (not more). To get legal-minimum levels of light through the blue glass, the filament has to be driven very hard so these bulbs have a very short lifespan, and there's nothing about the tinted light that improves your ability to see—the opposite is true (less light = less seeing, no matter about the tint). And Sylvania's are among the least-bad of an overall bad product category, so that $30,000,000 penalty math kind of does itself.

Octane lighting on my Satellite 4 years ago and they still work great - way, way, better/brighter

Except that light you think is extra bright is not doing what you think it is. Headlight performance is a lot more complex than brighter/dimmer.

The difficulty is, what we feel like we're seeing isn't what we're actually seeing. The human visual system is a lousy judge of how well it's doing. "I know what I can see!" seems reasonable, but it doesn't square up with reality because we humans are just not well equipped to accurately evaluate how well or poorly we can see (or how well a headlamp works). Our subjective impressions tend to be very far out of line with objective, real measurements of how well we can (or can't) see.

The primary factor that drives subjective ratings of headlamps is foreground light, that is light on the road surface close to the vehicle…which is almost irrelevant; it barely even makes it onto the _bottom_ of the list of factors that determine a headlamp's actual safety performance. A moderate amount of foreground light is necessary so we can use our peripheral vision to keep track of the lane lines and keep our focus up the road where it should be, but too much foreground light works against us: it draws our gaze downward even if we consciously try to keep looking far ahead, and the bright pool of light causes our pupils to constrict, which destroys our distance vision. All of this while creating the feeling that we've got "good" lights. It's not because we're lying to ourselves or fooling ourselves or anything like that, it's because our visual systems just don't work the way it feels like they work.

And it's a safety double-whammy because most poor-quality headlamps (including that junk from Octane) produce just about nothing but foreground light: a wash of light close to the vehicle, but no concentrated hot spot to throw light down the road where you need it, so you get severely deficient seeing distance—all while you feel like you have great/superior/better lights.

In fact Sylvania EXE Xenon are not only the brightest street legal gas charged bulbs sold in America

You're parrotting Sylvania's advertising hype here, not stating facts. For one thing, the product is ZXE. For another, that's one of the worst-performing bulbs you can buy. The dark-blue tint blocks a significant amount of light that would otherwise reach the road, and the result is these bulbs produce near the minimum legal amounts of light. The blue tint doesn't improve the light any; it doesn't make it work better or help you see better in any way (it does the opposite).

Also, "gas-charged bulb" is meaningless marketing doubletalk. All halogen bulbs are "gas-charged" (the correct term is "gas-filled"). And the fill gas in every halogen bulb contains some Xenon—not too much, though, because beyond a certain small percentage, it starts degrading the performance and durability of the bulb. So all this "Xenon-charged", "100% Xenon", etc you see thrown around is pure BS.

but Sylvania H4 GOLD are the highest rated bulbs sold by AutoZone, NAPA, and Oreily's

"Highest rated" by profit margin, sure, or by whatever promotional lit you might pick up. Also, who says Autozone, NAPA, or O'Reilly's will necessarily have good headlight bulbs?
 
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I really am not.



The lens material is wayyyyyyy far down the list of what determines whether a headlamp is legit or not. There are excellent headlamps with polycarbonate (plastic) lenses, and terrible headlamps with glass ones.



Okeh, and I know what I'm talking about because it's my job to know what I'm talking about. If my information about car lights starts being incorrect, I very quickly stop being able to buy groceries and heat my house. Obviously that won't happen if I start posting nonsense on here, but talking about car lights on here is just a byproduct of what I do in the real world.

I don't want to get in any kind of a dick-swinging contest, but I am a world-renowned expert in this field. I'm talkin' facts here—quite apart from opinions. That means the answers you get from me might not be the ones you wanted, but they damn sure will be the ones you needed, every single time. Follow my advice or don't, at your option, but.



Yeah, 100% legitimate? Sylvania got spanked to the tune of thirty million(!) dollars for false and misleading "upgrade" claims for their Silver Star bulbs (see here) and a large proportion of their car bulb product line is flat-out illegal because they ruin the performance of whatever lamp they're installed in. But they're highly saleable, and there are legal loopholes that allow them to get away with it, and that's how to maximize shareholder returns, so that's what they do.

Fact is, any of the bulbs claiming to produce "extra white" light (or super white, hyper white, platinum white, metal white, xenon white, etc) as its main promotional "benefit" is best avoided. It doesn't matter whose name is on the bulb—Sylvania SilverStar/Ultra or ZxE, Philips BlueVision or CrystalVision, Wagner TruView, anything from PIAA or Hoen,, Nokya, Polarg, etc.—all the same scam. They have a blue-tinted glass, which changes the light color a little, but blocks light that would reach the road if the glass weren't tinted, so they give you _less_ light than ordinary bulbs (not more). To get legal-minimum levels of light through the blue glass, the filament has to be driven very hard so these bulbs have a very short lifespan, and there's nothing about the tinted light that improves your ability to see—the opposite is true (less light = less seeing, no matter about the tint). And Sylvania's are among the least-bad of an overall bad product category, so that $30,000,000 penalty math kind of does itself.



Except that light you think is extra bright is not doing what you think it is. Headlight performance is a lot more complex than brighter/dimmer.

The difficulty is, what we feel like we're seeing isn't what we're actually seeing. The human visual system is a lousy judge of how well it's doing. "I know what I can see!" seems reasonable, but it doesn't square up with reality because we humans are just not well equipped to accurately evaluate how well or poorly we can see (or how well a headlamp works). Our subjective impressions tend to be very far out of line with objective, real measurements of how well we can (or can't) see.

The primary factor that drives subjective ratings of headlamps is foreground light, that is light on the road surface close to the vehicle…which is almost irrelevant; it barely even makes it onto the _bottom_ of the list of factors that determine a headlamp's actual safety performance. A moderate amount of foreground light is necessary so we can use our peripheral vision to keep track of the lane lines and keep our focus up the road where it should be, but too much foreground light works against us: it draws our gaze downward even if we consciously try to keep looking far ahead, and the bright pool of light causes our pupils to constrict, which destroys our distance vision. All of this while creating the feeling that we've got "good" lights. It's not because we're lying to ourselves or fooling ourselves or anything like that, it's because our visual systems just don't work the way it feels like they work.

And it's a safety double-whammy because most poor-quality headlamps (including that junk from Octane) produce just about nothing but foreground light: a wash of light close to the vehicle, but no concentrated hot spot to throw light down the road where you need it, so you get severely deficient seeing distance—all while you feel like you have great/superior/better lights.



You're parrotting Sylvania's advertising hype here, not stating facts. For one thing, the product is ZXE. For another, that's one of the worst-performing bulbs you can buy. The dark-blue tint blocks a significant amount of light that would otherwise reach the road, and the result is these bulbs produce near the minimum legal amounts of light. The blue tint doesn't improve the light any; it doesn't make it work better or help you see better in any way (it does the opposite).

Also, "gas-charged bulb" is meaningless marketing doubletalk. All halogen bulbs are "gas-charged" (the correct term is "gas-filled"). And the fill gas in every halogen bulb contains some Xenon—not too much, though, because beyond a certain small percentage, it starts degrading the performance and durability of the bulb. So all this "Xenon-charged", "100% Xenon", etc you see thrown around is pure BS.



DUDE! Why so hostile? I simply asked if anyone had any actual real first hand knowledge of the black crystal headlights. I don't why this has grown into such a big deal. I never said I was interested in those LED lights you like. I'm sure they're great. I just don't care for them. That's all. No saying you're a jerk or worse. Yes, I misspelled ZXE. You parrot other people while accusing me of doing the same thing and say I'm throwing around BS at the end of what?.... 3 pages of anger. If we were sitting in a couple of chairs in front of each other right now, I'm sure you'd be polite w/me too. We just disagree. Did you think I was insulting your intelligence? I was not. I do think your wrong about the Sylvania bulbs and several other things too. That doesn't mean I hate you. Or hate u soooo bad that I need to belittle you over and over. I don't hate u at all guy... Thank you for your advise - I decided to go w/ something else that I know worked well for me. Now I hope they will still work for me as good as the last ones bought. Just like not everyone builds a motor the exact same way. No need for such hate man. I wish u well and have a Merry Christmas.
 
David D Schnelker said:
DUDE! Why so hostile?
No hostility here. You asked a question and I gave the correct answer. Then you said I'm wrong, and supported that with a bunch of marketing BS. I said I'm right, and supported that with valid science and fact.

Now you're so wound up you couldn't even use this board's quote/reply button correctly. Maybe take some deep breaths.

I never said I was interested in those LED lights you like
I never said you should be. The links I provided included excellent halogen lights across a range of prices. Maybe read the answers when you ask a question.

You parrot other people
I do? Where? Because no, I don't.

while accusing me of doing the same thing
Because that is actually, really, literally what you did. You regurgitated Sylvania's promotional claims for their ZXE bulbs. Those aren't your words; you're not reporting on any tests you ran, you're just repeating what you've heard or read about those bulbs. In a word: parrotting.

We just disagree. I do think your wrong about the Sylvania bulbs and several other things too.
You're perfectly entitled to your own opinions. Not your own facts, though, and you've got the facts wrong on this.

Did you think I was insulting your intelligence?
No.

Just like not everyone builds a motor the exact same way.
Except it's not like that at all, because headlamps are life-safety equipment, and engines aren't. Bad consequences of making a poor choice of headlamp are more severe and more likely than any consequences of picking a Carter instead of a Holley carburetor, or this camshaft instead of that one.

No need for such hate
No hate here, dude; that call's comin' from inside your own house.

Look, there's probably something you know more about than I do. It's not car lighting, but there's probably something. Whatever it is, if I were to ask a question about it and you were to give a knowledgeable answer backed up with facts and science, I hope I'd have the manners and good grace to appreciate the education; that's what grownups do, and there's no shame in it.
 
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I installed the Sylvania Silverstars (?) on my 2003 Ram and they worked EXACTLY like Dan described! Junk… almost as bad as the factory bulbs..lol
So I would pay at least some attention to his advice .
 
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