HELP - Cragar SS Lug Nut Washers Keep Crushing - Need Alternatives!

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4spdragtop said:
Dave, do/did yours loosen up?
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As mater of fact the fronts did Steve. The Cragars were on it when I traded for it. The car saw many weekends at Oswego and Union Grove before I ended up with it. It took a lot of abuse. I was driving this car almost every day except in winter way back. It was a nuisance thing. I knew about it and just tightened them up regularly.
The rear axles were drilled to 4-1/2" and those 10 X 15s were "unilug" which never loosened up. The old Cragar single pattern lug wheels that never had a problem are still laying in the shed.
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The old Cragar wheels have no indent or counterbore on the lug holes.

The EZ washer has too big of a hole in it to work correctly. It's the same size as the hex on the lug nut. Just the tiny corners of the 11/16 hex will be touching the washer, if you're lucky.

Brandsport has the ones that'll fit (.600" ID) but I'd be willing to bet they are cheap mild steel just like Cragar supplies. Maybe worth a try?
 
69_340_GTS said:
The old Cragar flat washers were hardened. The new stuff is not. Plus it's probably the cheapest Chinesium-metal they can get. As I mentioned previously, McGard at one time had the correct nuts with nice hardened washers. Not shown in their current on-line catalog, but I'd call them about it anyway. Or possibly try Gorilla Automotive.

By the way, nobody makes off-the-shelf washers that are the correct size for these nuts. I looked at every SAE, metric, aircraft, military, washer in existence and nobody has anything close.
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I called all of them and no love...McGard, Gorilla, and Cragar. But I did find some Stainless washers from McMastercarr, that I just received. I'll post an update with details and photos asap!
 
69_340_GTS said:
The old Cragar wheels have no indent or counterbore on the lug holes.
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Maybe looking back on the very first post, third picture may change your mind? And the post #53 from 4spdragtop, from Cragar web site I am sure you may find interesting?....
 
Dicer said:
Maybe looking back on the very first post, third picture may change your mind? And the post #53 from 4spdragtop, from Cragar web site I am sure you may find interesting?....
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Nope, I had the same wheels. Those are just marks from the where the washers have been rubbing.
 
For illustration purposes, here are two Cragar G/Ts (my favorite wheel). Not identical, but very similar to the S/S. On the old originals, the center casting may have been virtually identical.

The first is fifty years old, with no machined recess for lug nuts. The only thing you see is rash from the washer on the shank type lug nut.
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The second is from a brand new Chinese Cragar G/T, made to use 60* cone type lug nuts. The machined chamfer is quite evident.
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If MobileCustoms strikes out on finding the correct size nuts and washers, a possibility would be to hone the holes in the wheels to fit the McGard PN 61001. That nut's shank diameter is .679". The Cragar nut is listed with a shank diameter of 0.592". That would be very little material coming off the wheel. As long as there is still room for what may be a larger washer between the spokes, it could be worth consideration.
I'm pretty sure the McGard is a superior product, and it's still made, for the most part, anyway, just outside of Buffalo, NY.
 
McGard, or Gorilla are far superior to the chinesium stuff on the market. If nothing else, find a good machinist & have him make you a set from some good steel.
 
Well, Here's what I am going with for my solution to this. I think it should work well. I have fitted up one for test purposes and would say that it is just about as good and tight as possible, without re-sizing the lug holes to accept the more available/modern lugnuts.
I ordered some stainless steel washers through McMastercarr. They are a little on the thin side so I doubled them up. With a little effort they pressed tightly onto the lugnuts which gives the lugnut the most surface to grab. They are also slightly larger on the outer diameter. Any larger would not fit. They torque down nicely. After doing the first one, I decided to hone out the inside diameter of the washers just a very small amount, so it doesn't take as much force to press them onto the lugnuts. But they still fit on the lugnuts very firmly and stay in place.

I'm gonna call it good to go and keep a close eye on them once I get the car back on the road. I think it's reasonably good solution. I single, thicker washer would obviously be better! I do have some samples coming from another company and we'll see how those pan out.
2 packs of washers and shipping came to about $28.00

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You can see how nice and tight the fit is. Critical with the super-small hex head surface on these!
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Here's a comparison of the old crushed one and the new stainless ones:
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Here's how the new washers seat in the wheels.
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Here's a pic of one of the old washers to show the size difference:
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When I had my Cragars I had a machinist friend make these washers. We used 17-4PH stainless. It is very hard and very strong. You will most likely have to supply him the 1" diameter 17-4 material. As I recall, McMaster had the bar stock. I think it took around 10" of material to make the 20 washers and a few extras. (sorry for the distorted picture!)

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There should be lettering on the back of the rim. If so, call or write Crager - assuming they are Cragers. I suspect RRR correctly identified the rim, but verify. If the rim wsa made for conical seat, then that's what you need to use. The manufacturer will have that info. And if you think it was mismanufactured, send 'em photos.
 
A little late to the party but here is what I did,
I installed the soft washers with the right dimensions to fit into the recesses
Then topped it with some larger hardened washers from some other brand wheels I happened to no longer need.
Then I found some shank-nuts with a lil longer shanks and put it all together like a sandwhich.
I had to convert the LH threads to RH cuz the long 7/16 shanknuts were not available in LH;no biggie.
You can hardly tell the top washers are just kindof floating above the surface.
And after one or two re-torques, everything has settled down. That was about 2002 or 2004.
I guess not for a show-car tho, cuz the new washers are pretty thick, and quite a bit larger, but they are chromed,lol.
For me,problem solved.
 
Not sure if your new washers worked but my direct drilled cragers take a offset washer (not unilug ) There are pics in the direct drilled Crager thread. I wonder if the washer is getting wedged between the narrow part of the spoke.
 
I'm sitting hear thinking, how long have these rims been around ? I have never heard of this problem. Either the lugnuts/ washers are junk. Or we have some sort of operator error. I would be taking this up with Cragar.
 
Johnny Dart said:
I'm sitting hear thinking, how long have these rims been around ? I have never heard of this problem. Either the lugnuts/ washers are junk. Or we have some sort of operator error. I would be taking this up with Cragar.
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Junk washers. As in Chinese Junk!
 
Johnny Dart said:
I'm sitting hear thinking, how long have these rims been around ? I have never heard of this problem. Either the lugnuts/ washers are junk. Or we have some sort of operator error. I would be taking this up with Cragar.
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Agree. First thing to do is double check these specific rims with the manufacturer for the type of mounting.
 
It's all about extremely piss-poor, soft washers with a loose inner diameter on top of it. That combo along with the fact that the lug nuts have such small shoulders to engage the soft, shitty washers is what causes the issue.
 
MobileCustoms said:
I searched and have seen this problem discussed before but have still not found a definitive solution. Called Cragar just now and got no help from them.
I have the small bolt pattern 5 x 4 wheels which use the smaller 7/16" stud. The lug nuts have an 11/16" size hex. My washers keep crushing even though I've been careful to use a torque wrench and not over-tighten them. The wheels constantly loosen up because the soft washers just crush down. I've tried searching for Stainless washers but can't find them in the smaller size (.60" inner diameter).
Planning to have the car back on the road this Spring and need to find a good, safe solution for this. It's gotta be a pretty common issue...?
Thanks for any help!
-Doug

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I have the same problem, there is no clean solution.
The factory torque spec is 55 foot pounds, believe it or not it works.
I fought this for a full season, I started torquing them to 55 and they stay tight.
The Cragar washers are dead soft, use them once and throw them away.
Good luck
 
Mattax said:
Agree. First thing to do is double check these specific rims with the manufacturer for the type of mounting.
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We already know how these particular wheels mount. Look up in this thread, there is a great verbal description and there are photos of the O.P.'s wheels: Straight shank nuts, no tapered seat, flat washers on a flat mounting surface. That's how Cragar made this wheel for ages. Only very recently they have changed to a tapered lug. That is not what the O.P. has.
 
69_340_GTS said:
Not true. Get some decent washers made. Anyone with a lathe can make them. I did, and there is a blueprint up in this thread someplace.
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I guess I should have said that there is no easy off the shelve solution. I do not own a lathe.
What material are you cutting in the lathe to make the washers?
 
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