Help identify electronic ignition? And other parts.

[macdrew77]

Sorry guys this is my first car and I have a ton of questions. So I just purchased a 1970 Dart Swinger, and am in the process of getting it running and sorting out a lot of wiring issues. I have a few questions about some parts on the car. Can anyone tell me more about the electronic ignition box, like brand, or if it has a rev limiter built in? What about the light metal box on the firewall? And the other box near the battery? What about these Sunpro mini gauges? Do all they require is a 5v positive connection and a ground? The temp/pressure sending wires are already hooked up. Also, I tested all the pins coming through the firewall for voltages in different key positions and only one pin has 12v on both Start and ON, and it currently has 3 wires jumped to it. Should there be more than one pin getting those voltages? And do you forsee a problem having 3 wires jumped to that pin? Thanks for any and all input.
Drew

 

[67Dart273]

The top photo is an aftermarket ignition coil. You have not pictured anything that shows the ignition box.

Second photo is the voltage regulator

Third photo is your starter relay. You have a stick transmission or automatic? On automatic cars, the brown "push on" wire goes to a harness than goes down the firewall, down over the top of the transmission, and to a switch on the transmission. This is a combo reverse light switch and neutral safety switch. The center pin of that switch will ground in neutral or park and will allow that relay to fire the starter when the key is twisted to start. The yellow "push on" connector is the "start" wire from the key

What about these Sunpro mini gauges? Do all they require is a 5v positive connection and a ground?

No, no 5V. There should be lamp sockets to fit them which came with them. Those lamps should get power from some orange wire from your original car wiring. That is, the following. There is a fuse in you original fuse panel at the end of the panel labled "inst" meaning instrument. This is instrument lamp "dimmer" controlled instrument lamp power which feeds power to all dash lamps, and will will always be ORANGE wiring. You can tap into that for lamp power for those gauges

The center gauge appears to be an ammeter? voltmeter? Would have to see the front to tell?

 

[BillGrissom]

No need to test all the firewall pins, unless mods were made. You can find wiring diagrams here for most years if you search. Early cars had 2 firewall connectors. When they moved the wiper motor to the engine bay (~1966?), they added a 3rd connector mostly for the wiper. The other pins 1-8 & A-H kept pretty much the same functions.

The terminal with 3 wires off it is most likely IGN1, which gets power in "run". We term that "ignition". It goes to the coil (via white ballast resistor), voltage regulator, and alternator (later cars ~1971+). It is also the only "accessory" type power under the hood, so might go to add-on features. Everything else (horn relay, starter relay) gets direct BATT+ power. It doesn't get power in "start", but the thicker brown wire (IGN2) on the other side of the ballast does, so you read voltage fed back thru the ballast.

No problem having 3 wires on the ignition terminal, unless somebody got crazy. You could also wire so IGN1 simply turns on a 30A relay to power the loads (I do). The bulkhead wires that cause endless problems are the thick red (BATT) and thick black (ALT) wires. When the terminals corrode, they melt the plastic. Read up on the MAD Bypass and Fleet Bypass, plus my "diode shunt" solution.

 

[macdrew77]

Thank you both, a lot has been cleared up. The ignition coil is wired only to ignition and the distributor, so there is no ignition box. Is it worth investing in one?

 

[74Dusted]

If it doesn't have an ignition box, there's either a HEI Module hidden underneath the coil or you don't have Electronic Ignition.

I'm guessing you've got a Points Ignition System, with an aftermarket coil.

A HEI Conversion would be a cheap and easy way to convert to Electronic Ignition, and it looks like you've got an E-Core Coil already, so most of the cost in the conversion is already spent.

Here's the HEI system I put together for my cousin's Mazda RX7 (with a Mopar 318 engine)



Vintage Nippondenso 12 Volt Coil
4-Pin Accel HEI Module
Computer Heat Sink & Fan to keep the HEI module cool (heat is the big enemy of HEI modules)
70's Mopar SB Distributor (this would be a part you'd have to source new or used from another vehicle)

 

[KitCarlson]

The coil is a Ford TRI coil. It has a fancy cover. It has a 0.5 Ohm primary, so it is used with an ignition with dwell control like HEI, or there is a ballast resistor.

Follow the wires from the connector and see where they go. Report back.

 

[67Dart273]

Thank you both, a lot has been cleared up. The ignition coil is wired only to ignition and the distributor, so there is no ignition box. Is it worth investing in one?

I don't know what this means............what is "wired to ignition?" ignition switch? Maybe you have a Pertronix conversion IN the distributor or maybe you have an aftermarket distributor what is called a "ready to run" distributor. A good clear photo would help.

 

[65cuda360]

Pop the cap off and look for points....

 

[macdrew77]

I don't know what this means............what is "wired to ignition?" ignition switch?

Yes, Ignition switch. It is a points distributor almost positive. Photos will come soon. Previous owner said MSD ignition was installed, which has led to this confusion.

 

[67Dart273]

Yes, Ignition switch. It is a points distributor almost positive. Photos will come soon. Previous owner said MSD ignition was installed, which has led to this confusion.

Pull the distributor cap and look. Could be either, neither, or both. MSD can be triggered by a points or a breakerless distirbutor. Pull the cap and look what's under there. An MSD is an unmistakable Great Big Red box with the MSD logo and model no on it. Depending on what the distributor "is" and what's inside it, anything goes, at this point, or points, pun intended.

 

[macdrew77]

Here's the distributor. Points distributor with vacuum advance as far as I can tell. A ballast resistor came in a box of spare parts, but there isn't one currently wired up. Problem?

 

[TrailBeast]

That is an HEI conversion distributor, and it'd be best to leave it.
(Explains the coil)

 

[65cuda360]

Gotta be a module or a box somewhere. Look under the dash.

 

[67Dart273]

That is NOT a "points" distributor, I can tell by the "looks" of it. As Trailbeast says, it's one of those Chinese import HEI what is called a "ready to run" import distributors, it has a trigger wheel and control module all inside the distributor . As long as it works, it's probably OK. I don't think you can buy internal parts for those anywhere.

like this

There are various outfits selling these, ebay, etc. All Chinese, all the time, various quality, and various opinions as to how good they are. You can buy them as cheap as about 60 bucks

I

 

[TrailBeast]

Gotta be a module or a box somewhere. Look under the dash.

The module is right here on these.

 

[65cuda360]

^^^sorry, my mistake, no habla chinese distributor^^^

 

[macdrew77]

Good stuff guys, thanks a lot.

 

[67Dart273]

Good stuff guys, thanks a lot.

You're welcome, we've seen it all before, LOL

 

[BillGrissom]

If you pop the chrome cover off the side of the distributor, you will find a "4-pin HEI module". No need to do so since you can find photos on-line. That is state of the art for distributor ignitions, and used by GM to 1995. Slightly better is the "8-pin HEI module", but only if you plan to have an engine controller managing spark timing (ex. Holley Commander 950). After that "distributor-less" ignitions started, but that requires a crankshaft sensor. I think those ready-to-run distributors all come from the same manufacturer in China (below). Most who have used them here like them. Most who don't haven't tried, hate Chinese products, rant, rant, ... I am glad they thought of us (except slant owners).

You should have a very strong spark with that setup, so set your spark gaps to ~0.050" for better combustion, power, and mileage. If you get misfires when accelerating hard from slow speed (like an on-ramp), back off on the gap.

 

[macdrew77]

You should have a very strong spark with that setup, so set your spark gaps to ~0.050" for better combustion, power, and mileage. If you get misfires when accelerating hard from slow speed (like an on-ramp), back off on the gap.

Thanks for the info, Bill. I was curious what spark gap my setup could support.