Help!!!!

-
chrissock

chrissock

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
146
Reaction score
31
Location
Sussex County, Delaware
So I bought this car and it ran pretty good. Drove it around but it would not pass inspection. So I ran it awhile and it was great. Fired right up no problem. Temp tag expired and winter set in so it sat awhile. I fired it some and everything seemed fine. Finished changing over the interior, started the car backed it out of the garage to warm up and it stumbled. drove it down the road fine. came back into the driveway and it was fine. Jack the car up in the front to install the new spedo cable and once i set it back down it wont run for crap.
So i took the tank out and drained it. put fresh gas and new fuel filter. still runs like crap. I can get it fired but it sounds like it just runs out of gas. I took the carb off and went through it. No rebuild but sprayed it all out. re installed. still the same. I installed new cap, rotor, plugs, and points and condenser when I first got it and the car ran great with all that stuff. any thoughts??
 
Assuming 'this car' is a Mopar /6 car.... did you clean the fuel pickup 'sock' while in the tank? They can get varnish blocked all to heck. And did you blow with air through the fuel line from front to back? Did you replace the 2 rubber fuel lines that connects to the tank and also to the pump?

You can do a couple of fuel pump tests pretty easily:
- Take the fuel line to the carb off and put in a can, crank the engine, and see if it will pump out about a pint or more in 30 seconds
- Connect the same fuel line to the carb to a fuel pressure gauge and crank the engine; see if the pressure builds up to about 5 lbs in a few spins. Stop cranking and see if the pressure holds for a long time; if not, one of the 2 check valves in the pump is bad.
- Repeat the above 2 tests if either fails with the fuel pump pulling out of a gas container instead of the tank and see if anything changes/improves

Let us know what ignition setup you have; be as detailed as you can be.
 
PLEASE post your info. "Make model and year."

What exactly have you done?

Compression test?

Leakdown test?

Ignition tune up?

Condition of ignition points? Examined cap? rotor? Tested / replaced plug wires? Plugs?

Define 'runs like crap.' Carb might be AFU

"Went all through it" may or may not be "enough."

Or are we working on a hemi powered Farmall?

01.gif
 
Geez. Where are these people comin from?
 
Wow. So I guess me typing with nasty hands and missing a few details classifies me as "that guy". I'm sorry if I left off a few details in my haste. I guess we can't assume its a slant 6 because that's the forum I'm in?

The car
1971 Dodge Dart Swinger Triple green, /6 with optional 727 3 speed auto
Pulled interior out and changed to black, had the dash apart and painted the dash pad and touched up plastics.
Since I've owned it I Have installed brand new plugs gapped to spec, wires, cap, rotor, and points and condenser. All from napa. Set points and dwell to spec ( can't remember spec at this time) I changed the fuel filter and both rubber hoses to it. When I dropped the tank I did clean the pickup screen. I did not change the rubber line to the pickup. I took the carb off and cleaned it. ( Holley model 1920) I ordered a rebuild so I could take apart further without having to deal with old gaskets.

The car has run perfectly since I got it. Starts right up on the choke. Goes through proper warm up and drives great. After getting the interior back together it fired right up. I backed it out to warm up. And that's when it started to stumble. I drove it down the road and back and it was fine. I pulled it back in the garage to hook up the speedo cable at the trans (forgot and realized on test drive) so we jacked the car up in the front pretty tall and hooked it up. Once I set it back down it world not run correctly.

Definition of "runs like crap"
I could get it fired but it would only run at high rpm. As I let it come down it would start to mess up and shut off. Nothing I did would stop it. Now it is bad enough that I could only get it to start by holding my foot on the floor and even then it only sputters.

Yesterday I went out after it had sat for awhile and tried. After hitting it with some starting fluid and cranking a bit. It fired on the choke and sat there running fine. Then it sounds like someone shuts off the fuel. After that I couldn't refire. I am pretty sure it's the carb. Which is why I ordered the rebuild. Not sure what part though. Needle and seat? Idle circuit? So to clarify that is my question. Is there a way to narrow it down to what part of the carb is the issue so when I do the rebuild I can look into it?

For future reference I am not impressed with people who feel the need to make smart comments. If you need more info ask. Otherwise don't post. Pretty simple really. I don't like typing giant posts because generally people don't read all the way through and then ask questions that I already answered. thanks in advance for any help. If I get no response I will get it fixed regardless but the help is appreciated.
 
nm9stheham said:
Assuming 'this car' is a Mopar /6 car.... did you clean the fuel pickup 'sock' while in the tank? They can get varnish blocked all to heck. And did you blow with air through the fuel line from front to back? Did you replace the 2 rubber fuel lines that connects to the tank and also to the pump?

You can do a couple of fuel pump tests pretty easily:
- Take the fuel line to the carb off and put in a can, crank the engine, and see if it will pump out about a pint or more in 30 seconds
- Connect the same fuel line to the carb to a fuel pressure gauge and crank the engine; see if the pressure builds up to about 5 lbs in a few spins. Stop cranking and see if the pressure holds for a long time; if not, one of the 2 check valves in the pump is bad.
- Repeat the above 2 tests if either fails with the fuel pump pulling out of a gas container instead of the tank and see if anything changes/improves

Let us know what ignition setup you have; be as detailed as you can be.
Click to expand...

This is helpful! Thanks. I did take off the fuel line and put it into a clear jug. After a few cranks it does pump a pretty good amount. I will have to make an adapter for my fuel guage. I will try this when I get back on it. See my later post for ignition stuff. It's all stock vac advance dizzy and Coil.
 
After checking the fuel pump. I found fuel in the oil. Not a little either. So I guess I have an issue with the float/needle and seat hanging up. Or a fuel pump. The pump seemed to work fine. Pumped up to 4.5 lbs and very slowly leaked back down. Hope to have my carb kit today or tomorrow and we will see where that goes.
 
Yup. Easily bad pump.

Also does it still have breaker points ignition, or been converted to breakerless?

Probably a good idea just to give it a general tune up. I can never remember when "slants" got away from mechanical lifters. Find out and adjust them. Run a compression check, examine plugs for oil fouling. How are the plug wires? Condition of rotor and cap? Probably new points and condenser.

Sitting parked is never good. If the fuel in the tank happened to be "already some old" and you park it over winter, the carb might be gummed up. This might be an accumulation of years of sitting.
 
67Dart273 said:
Yup. Easily bad pump.

Also does it still have breaker points ignition, or been converted to breakerless?

Probably a good idea just to give it a general tune up. I can never remember when "slants" got away from mechanical lifters. Find out and adjust them. Run a compression check, examine plugs for oil fouling. How are the plug wires? Condition of rotor and cap? Probably new points and condenser.

Sitting parked is never good. If the fuel in the tank happened to be "already some old" and you park it over winter, the carb might be gummed up. This might be an accumulation of years of sitting.
Click to expand...


I have done all the tune up stuff when I got it. Only driven maybe 50 miles since. Cap rotor, plugs, wires, points, condenser, air filter, PVC valve. I have gone through the carb twice since this started. It looks beautiful inside. No crud or oxidation at all. I haven't rebuilt yet but if the pump is bad maybe I won't just yet. Plugs are. Little dark but not fowled. Haven't done compression yet.
 
I would be inclined to suspect the pump has a partial rupture inside in the diaphragm if you have a lot of fuel in the crankcase that fast. I would get another one just because they do not cost all that much. The residual fuel pressure should actually hold up with very little drop after the is engine shut off for like 20-30 minutes if the pump and check valves are all good. Sounds like you can figure out if it is the pump or carb needle; that is not uncommon either.

And BTW, when you try to help to answer a lot of internet questions, it is frustrating to not know the engine and year, etc. There are plenty of variations in all the systems so not ID'ing it is a waste of time to those giving freely of their time and long/hard earned experience. So that is the reason for the seemingly pointed questions and comments.....plus a temptation to rib someone......!!
 
nm9stheham said:
I would be inclined to suspect the pump has a partial rupture inside in the diaphragm if you have a lot of fuel in the crankcase that fast. I would get another one just because they do not cost all that much. The residual fuel pressure should actually hold up with very little drop after the is engine shut off for like 20-30 minutes if the pump and check valves are all good. Sounds like you can figure out if it is the pump or carb needle; that is not uncommon either.

And BTW, when you try to help to answer a lot of internet questions, it is frustrating to not know the engine and year, etc. There are plenty of variations in all the systems so not ID'ing it is a waste of time to those giving freely of their time and long/hard earned experience. So that is the reason for the seemingly pointed questions and comments.....plus a temptation to rib someone...


Point of information: VERY FEW slant 6s had a 727...taxis and police cars, mainly. Look down the tranny filler tube. If there is no kickout for the tube to enter the pan, it's a 904.

904 pans are pretty much square.

Not really pertinent to this discussion, but you need to know.
Click to expand...
 
So after exhausting almost every rout I knew to take I have taken the car to an old school shop to be diagnosed.
I installed a new fuel pump, and reman carb. Neither made a difference. I did a full compression check and all cylinders cold pumped to around 120psi. It seems now like an ignition problem. After trying to start the car and it bucking and picking we pulled plugs to find a few dry ones and a few that are soaked.
 
Try changing the condenser!! I know you already did, but they are cheap, and your description of how it reacts sounds just like a condenser! Geof
 
By the way, and there are loads of knowledge on this board, "!!!!HELP!!!!" is never a good title for a thread, unless, maybe the house is on fire, or the car just fell on you
 
cosgig said:
Try changing the condenser!! I know you already did, but they are cheap, and your description of how it reacts sounds just like a condenser! Geof
Click to expand...

BINGO!! Shop called and yes. Bad Freaking condenser almost out of the box. So pissed. But it runs good now so whatever. I bought an extra set of points and condenser and the Ballast resistor on the fire wall and put them in the glove box for future. Thanks for the help all!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top