heres my combo , i need more.....help

-
A

abodyhotrod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
292
Reaction score
2
360 .30. stock bottom end,hyd cam 480/480 lift, adv. dur. 292/292, @ .50 it's i think 230ish, stock length pushrods w/stock rockers. heads are j's 2.02 1.6.probly low compression ratio never pings even w/ 87 octane. tti exaust on its way. i have the m-1 high rise w/ a 750 mighty demon, msd digital e-curve dist. hooked to a blaster 2 coil. the trans is a 727 w/shift kit and cheetah valve body, high stall maybe to much 3800-4200 w/4.11 60rear. mi car past the last 3 years of smog like a new car, vegas baby smog every year. but not for long. not passing smog no problem. im moving. lets get this car moving. no good times laid down but my roommate got his neon in the 13's and the track opens late jan. we have a little grudge and i need to get in the lets aim for low 12's. the roommate has a bigger turbo that were installing and thats what i'm really scared of. he's aiming for trap speed of 120 mph. if i can get mine up to 105-108mph we got a race, i can get him by more than a half second just to the 60 ft. but after man those 5 speed turbos are pretty quick. sorry no time slip for my car i had a loose dist. ground wire not letting it rev very fast (kinda like running on 7 cyilinders)my trap was 87 mph@5600 rpms. ok 15.2 she'll rev past 6k but stops pulling around 4700-4900.

what would you do to this combo to get in the low 12s
probly gonna spend 2 grand or so... 600 spent on tti headers.

come on guys whats the best bang for my bucks?
 
Thats a good question and its all about the whole package,you already have a good stall and gears but are the heads ported?,and the compression is a big issue for making power,then theres the cam.Low 12s are tough unless those things are all adressed,you could gain alot from a simple cam change to the xe274 or voodoo 60403 and I would definitely look at bumping up the compression either way.Then theres nitrous,but you have to be careful on a stock bottom end.
 
abodyhotrod, I love a good hunt for power,
"come on guys whats the best bang for my bucks?"
Click to expand...
But this was a tuff read. Chuck in some parragraphs for a half blind man. LOL.

lead69 has great points. You can definatly step up in cam, big time. The compresion ratio is going to require ethier a mad milling of heads or a piston replacement. (KB-107's or equal)

Head flow is another problem to contend with. I believe the 2.02 J's can run a mid 12. Past that, it'll be some trick work going on.

Your current cam is a limiting factor. If the heads remain stock, I think I'd look into a 240 @ .050 mech. cam (More RPM with a mech. cam.) with .500 or better lift.
Problem here is where the stock heads stop flowing (stall) and what there max lift is.

Those are the 2 points of concern, compresion and cam.
 
lead, the lunati cam is not much bigger would you see much difference there . i was thinking 513/533 hyd. cam or bigger.

rumble, will a hyd. cam w/6800 rpm rating be as good as a solid lifter cam rated at 6800 rpm's. i really dont want to spin past 6500 but i'm looking at these cams to raise my torque to a higher rpm.
i know an old school guy that use to spin his cast crank 360 past 7200rpms, but i dont want to risk more than 6500rpm's
 
You need to get rid of that intake for your combo too, if you are not looking to spin massive amounts of RPM, then you do not need the M1, opt for an eddy air gap. Headers will be a good upgrade, Invest in some drag radials so you can get the most on the launch, mabey some slant 6 torsion bars to aid in weight transfer. The rest of your combo sounds good, but little compression on a Natural Aspirated engine is like death. I think a 100 shot of Nitrous and some traction adders are your best bet to see mid to high 12's.
 
abodyhotrod said:
lead, the lunati cam is not much bigger would you see much difference there . i was thinking 513/533 hyd. cam or bigger.

The suggestion is for the combo your running right now,either of the cams will definitely make more power than your current grind-even with no changes.To run anything bigger you need some compression to really take advantage,you have to make some tough decisions where to spend the remaining $1,400.If you get in the bottom end you could eat most of that up real quick if the bottom end isnt fresh already,pistons balancing,then you open up the can of worms with the condition of the short block-rod bolts/clearences ect,especially if the engine has some miles on it.If you just want to get er done with what you have mill the heads,use the mp p4120094 head gaskets,have some port work done and then go with the lunati voodoo 60404,thats what I would do lol.
Click to expand...
 
Without knowing what your comp. ratio is it's really a crap shoot trying to figure your next step. I'd say to try the bigger cam and diffinitely dump that
M1 for an air gap or RPM Performer.

Terry
 
Compression is your biggest limiting factor. With 9.5:1 or higher compression, some bowl porting wiht your existing cam should get you in the low 13 range.
 
What about a set of Edelbrock heads? That should bump up the compression ratio. He said "around 2 grand or so." Even if the TTI's come out of that, there might be enough wiggle room left in the budget for a new cam & lifters. Some kind of dual pattern that's compatible with the springs that come on the heads.
 
i thought the m1 was between 2500-6500rpm's. my intake is mopar p4452893 (the number above the termastat housing) witch i thought was a m1 is it (i cant find a site that list all mopar high rise intakes.)

as far as cam, it's a done deal bigger. lets see what the heads have for lift. i really didnt want to put $1400 eddys on a used block, but really to me beating the neon is worth a $600 head.(i might only hurt one of them if i were to blow the motor,right..ha ha)

so w/the eddy's and a bigger cam $1500
(is this the best bang for all the bucks) compression and cam, and a little more flow sounds good.

sell my perfect j's and i can pay for tax, and make budget.
 
abodyhotrod said:
rumble, will a hyd. cam w/6800 rpm rating be as good as a solid lifter cam rated at 6800 rpm's. i really dont want to spin past 6500 but i'm looking at these cams to raise my torque to a higher rpm.
i know an old school guy that use to spin his cast crank 360 past 7200rpms, but i dont want to risk more than 6500rpm's
Click to expand...

A solid cam can be ground with more duration @ .050 than a Hyd. cam. They can turn more RPM because theres no lifter pump up to hold the valves open. Since the cams differ little in price, this is what I would do. If price was not an option, I would do a roller.

Choose a cam that fits within the RPM range your operating in. There is absoultely no sense in getting a cam to large and even more so, one rated 1000 RPM above your operating RPM. Chances are, your peaking in HP at or right around 6,000 RPM. Even if the cam is rated at 4000 - 7000 rpm.

high stall maybe to much 3800-4200 w/4.11 60rear.
Click to expand...
Also, IMO, save the money on a intake swap. Run the M-1. Being a single plain, it has an edge on HP in the higher RPM range, the one your cam operates best in and where the car launchs at, it's skipping any advantage of a dual plane.

Don't do what the old school guy is doing. If you didn't prep your engine to spin above 6000 rpm for any leangth of time besides finish line end run, you'll turn the engine into toast quick.
 
I agree with above that compression is already a concern with a stock(probably about 7.8:1)short block. You already have too much cam for the Bracketmaster ll cam to work well. I have used this cam on two different hi compression 340's and I did try it in a low comp 8:1 engine with lousy results. I bet your spark plugs are not burning too cleanly even with the proper tune on the Holley.

The Lunati cam you have can get a small block A body into low 12 sec qtr mi times. If the M1 intake is the single plane, keep it. Put your money into the short block with pistons that will give you at least 9.8:1 comp, up to mabe 10.5 max. The overlap on the cam is 74 deg and it is not likely to ping on 93 octane pump gas. I never have detonation problems with my 10.4:1 340 running that cam.

About the engine not pulling past 4,900 rpm's, check your total timing with a dial-back timing light. I bet you are way over-advanced on total timing. I would think that 32-34 deg of total is all you need. So you might need to re-curve the distributor.

Also do a cranking compression test on all 8 cyl. With your cam, you probably need about 160+ psi otherwise that cam is just too much for low compression pistons, David.

Picture_157.jpg
 
:spam1: and mayo sands is what i will be eating for awhile.

give me 2 weeks and the, eddy's, thin gasket, tti's, and cam # 1 (thats the cam now) will be installed. 2 parts 2 grand probably not the best bang for my buck but it's a done deal.

if i need more compression i'm gonna just shoot her full of n.o.s. to hold off the roommates srt neon. i really dont want to get into the block as far as pistons go.

thanks to all, and i will update.


abodyhotrod
 
Keep everything as is and buy a set of Magnum or Magnum RPM heads for it. They flow better and will raise compression. You can get them with LA intake bolt pattern.

Check Hughes Engines for them.

My next swap would be to a small solid cam. Something in the 230 intake, 240 exhaust duration @.050"

The M1 wouldnt be my first choice but with your gears and converter you'll be ok.
 
eddy's just got here today,thats good for .8 more compression + a thinner gasket. should i see a differance. w/these heads alone
 
Hang on a minute, don't alluminium heads need even more compression than stock? If you have say, 8.9:1 comp now, it could in effect act like a lower compression now due to heat dissipation etc..surely?
 
Aluminum will dissipate heat quicker the iron will so you can generally run 1 point more compression before you have detonation problems.

You dont need to run more compression but usually you can.

Some people feel the heat loss will cause power lose so you will need to raise compression to get back to wear you were before.
 
Tim;

It's an approxamation of 1 point of compresion. Thats why the Edel. heads come with a reduced chamber while the stock 340-360 heads are very open and large.
Edel. did the work for you so theres no compresion problems or performance loss. In a striaght out swap, you'll gain in performance due to the better head port and flow. Add hi-comp. pistons for a great quench area and your really starting to kick it up a notch. Also opening great performance doors of whats possible, or next!
 
The better chamber of the Eddy will probably like less timing. More timing doesnt all ways mean more power.
 
AdamR said:
The better chamber of the Eddy will probably like less timing. More timing doesnt all ways mean more power.
Click to expand...

Adam is right..when i had my car on the dyno we put more timing into the engine,it made less h.p.,we set the timing back to where it was an bingo h.p. came back,i'm running the Edelbrock heads mildly ported...
 
DusterBoy15 said:
well he can run more timing now right? until it gets to the point were theres no gain
Click to expand...

As answered above, in short, yes. Running a tight quenched area reduces timing needs. Open chamber will require more advancement.
 
Best bang for the buck eh?I agree with Adam.

Cheapest way to get comp up is a set of magnums. Slap them on with a decent porting job and up the size of the intake valve if you can afford it. They'll breath around 240-250 cfm with home porting. Use an .028 head gasket and comp should be around 9.5:1 without changing pistons. If you want more have the heads slightly milled. They also have a nice heart shape chamber.There are a couple of magnum intakes or just drill and tap for la pattern.The crosswind intake has both patterns.

Just be aware that they need to be checked for cracks.

Or port and mill the hell out of your 360 heads and throw on some giggle juice.

Acourse it's all a waste if ya cant hook.There's lots of time to be picked up by paying attention to things other than motor.
 
Thanks for clearing up the issue of Ally heads and 'lost' compression. I had the idea (from other articles) that ally heads could lead to an effective loss of compression. As I understand it now, you guys are saying that you can use more comp, but won't lose any and of course the heads are much better designed than stock for making power.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top