High Performance 318ci

[318willrun]

I'm talking stock..they never came from the factory w/10.5 to 1 comp.r/t heads .622 cam ect ect....you can make ANYTHING fast just depends on how much you spend..

same can be said about your beloved 340's. Stock.... they were 14 second cars in light A-bodies. For a few dollars into a 318 (not even the cost difference between buying the 340) you can beat the 340. Give my 318 Duster 3.55's and I'll race any 3.55 geared 340 Duster that's stock - and I have a lot less into it than if I was to buy a good running stock 340.

 

[stroked340]

Guys, firtst of all, plan is to build a small block and keep it 318ci to make things more difficult ;-) So no big blocks. The owner of the car wants 318ci.
Too many changes to the drivetrain to put big block in it and also zero big blocks for reasonable money where we are located.
I am surprised that so many people are against 318, buddy of mine is constantly wining autocross events in his Challenger with 318 (roller cam, ported iron heads and 410hp). Challenger is not feather light either.

For the wagon I was thinking to get very good heads but stay with flat tappet cam, get some compression, put rather small cam that has lift to take advantage of these heads flow etc... Operating range of this cam is 2500-6200 rpm.
Regarding too much carb, well given the power goal, I would never say that 750cfm is too much. Six pack on 340 is what? 1250cfm...? Also less power.

So really you all say that 318 is a lost cause? I was hoping for more positive approach.

Wouldn't put 10 cents into a "boat anchor" 318!!

OK then, now you did it I'd skip the lame 360 or stroked small block and move up to 440 or stroked to 512.
If he's going to need power let's make some real power with real axle twisting torque
In case you didn't know I'm not to fond of small blocks. They always need a kick in the butt to make REAL power. lol

Lame 360 huh??..put wayyyy more the a few big block and a few hemi cars right back on the trailer at the track..love it when they come over to my pit spot and see it was a LOWLY 360 that blew their doors off

 

[318willrun]

Wouldn't put 10 cents into a "boat anchor" 318!!


Lame 360 huh??..put wayyyy more the a few big block and a few hemi cars right back on the trailer at the track..love it when they come over to my pit spot and see it was a LOWLY 360 that blew their doors off

you are talking bracket racing? Where a 18 second car can put a 11 second car on the trailer? or are you in some heads up class slam'n those big blocks on the trailer?? Cuz' I'm sure there are plenty of Big Block A-body guys here that would love to race you heads up.....

 

[RustyRatRod]

A low deck big block stroker with lots of aluminum would be a better choice.

 

[stroked340]

you are talking bracket racing? Where a 18 second car can put a 11 second car on the trailer? or are you in some heads up class slam'n those big blocks on the trailer?? Cuz' I'm sure there are plenty of Big Block A-body guys here that would love to race you heads up.....

Bring in on..have lost plenty of races no big deal,but like I said the look on the big block guys face when he realizes he got blown away by a SMALL block is priceless

 

[318willrun]

Bring in on..have lost plenty of races no big deal,but like I said the look on the big block guys face when he realizes he got blown away by a SMALL block is priceless

again, answer the "putting them on the trailer" question. Is it because you were bracket racing??? Cuz I was 500th of a second away from putting a 9.50 car on the trailer last Saturday. That speaks nothing of small block, big block, slant six, that's all consistency and reaction time. NOT how fast you or they are.

 

[stroked340]

again, answer the "putting them on the trailer" question. Is it because you were bracket racing??? Cuz I was 500th of a second away from putting a 9.50 car on the trailer last Saturday. That speaks nothing of small block, big block, slant six, that's all consistency and reaction time. NOT how fast you or they are.

Bracket racing..but no matter ALWAYS a pleasure smacking a big block car

 

[273]

Hi

Buddy of mine bought 69 Coronet Wagon some time ago. While he is restoring the body and interior he asked me to think about the 318ci thats in the car now.

Engine is supposed to be freshly rebuilt, looks very fresh but is standars spec.
Plan is to add some power with bolt on parts, or build it again with new forged pistons and some nice rods.

My initial idea was to get:
- TrickFlow 190 heads (with thin gasket target is 10:1 compression for pump gas)
- Edelbrock Air Gap intake
- Howards 710862-08 (238/238 @.050 558/558 lift) solid flat tappet cam
- 1,6 roller rockers to take advantage of high flowing heads better
- 750 or 850 Double Pumper with electric choke
- MSD 6AL2 + MSD distributor


I think this should be good for over 400hp. Not planning something crazy, just fun engine with some power and very good streetability.

Its an automatic car, transmission is almost stock, probably will need 2500 stall converter for the cam.
Do you have any better ideas? Suggestions?

That's definitely more than a 400hp engine. and probably peak around 7000 rpm's. Looks like a good combo for a serious street strip A body.

If he won't go big block then add a 4" stroke to that engine and bring the powerband down a 1000 rpm's, or go with a 360 block for another few 100 rpm.

 

[RustyRatRod]

All this dick measurin ain't helpin the OP yall.

 

[Miszny]

That's definitely more than a 400hp engine. and probably peak around 7000 rpm's. Looks like a good combo for a serious street strip A body.

If he won't go big block then add a 4" stroke to that engine and bring the powerband down a 1000 rpm's, or go with a 360 block for another few 100 rpm.

I’d probably need to get some custom grind cam to use the heads and bring the power band lower. But this cam is 2500-6200 according to manufacturer.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I’d probably need to get some custom grind cam to use the heads and bring the power band lower. But this cam is 2500-6200 according to manufacturer.

That's not in "everything". A 318 is a small engine and will have a higher peak RPM where it makes most power.

 

[273]

I’d probably need to get some custom grind cam to use the heads and bring the power band lower. But this cam is 2500-6200 according to manufacturer.

But there probably basing that on 340/360 displacement, cid and head cfm are also gonna decide where your engine makes power. 318 vs 408 powerbands are gonna be at very different rpm's even with the same heads cam etc...

 

[Miszny]

That's not in "everything". A 318 is a small engine and will have a higher peak RPM where it makes most power.

Where I live 5.2l engine is anything but small and people think 3.0l is very big gas guzzler ;-)

 

[Miszny]

So what changes to my initial idea do you guys suggest? I posted this to get corrected.

 

[273]

Where I live 5.2l engine is anything but small and people think 3.0l is very big gas guzzler ;-)

So what changes to my initial idea do you guys suggest? I posted this to get corrected.

It all depends what you call streetable or street friendly, some its a full race car with plates. Me anything NA over 1.2 hp per cid is street strip territory, anything under 0.9 hp per cid is super street friendly, 0.9-1 is muscle car level and 1-1.1 is a hot street engine. So 1:1 is a decent compromise.

So where is street friendly for you HP:CID ?

* Above 0.9:1 gears and stall become more and more important especially over 1.1:1.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Where I live 5.2l engine is anything but small and people think 3.0l is very big gas guzzler ;-)

You're missin the point. But ok, carry on.

 

[RustyRatRod]

So what changes to my initial idea do you guys suggest? I posted this to get corrected.

Big block.

 

[stroked340]

So what changes to my initial idea do you guys suggest? I posted this to get corrected.

I agree with everything just start with a 360 block or if you can find one (cheap) a 340

 

[Miszny]

You're missin the point. But ok, carry on.

You guys are totally spoiled by easy access to all the parts and cheapness off all this stuff. Please understand that every single part costs me 2x the price on summit after I get it shipped and taxed. Also 300$ block for you is 1000$ block to me due to weight and size.
Another thing is that owner of the car is simply looking for some extra power. He initially planned to leave the 318 stock, so probably like 200hp. After he saw the change in 240hp 72 daemon I mentioned earlier he started thinking that it could be good to get some more power. He has plenty of fast cars, that includes 68 charger with 511 hemi and also 1200hp hemi coronet for 1/4 mile racing. He has enough race cars but if his wagon can run better with some mods, why not do them? He wants to keep it 318, keep reasonable gas mileage and make it good long distance cruiser with some extra kick.

 

[273]

You guys are totally spoiled by easy access to all the parts and cheapness off all this stuff. Please understand that every single part costs me 2x the price on summit after I get it shipped and taxed. Also 300$ block for you is 1000$ block to me due to weight and size.
Another thing is that owner of the car is simply looking for some extra power. He initially planned to leave the 318 stock, so probably like 200hp. After he saw the change in 240hp 72 daemon I mentioned earlier he started thinking that it could be good to get some more power. He has plenty of fast cars, that includes 68 charger with 511 hemi and also 1200hp hemi coronet for 1/4 mile racing. He has enough race cars but if his wagon can run better with some mods, why not do them? He wants to keep it 318, keep reasonable gas mileage and make it good long distance cruiser with some extra kick.

If thats the case 9:1 cr 4bbl 255 to 265 ish cam with duals maybe headers, 250-280 hp

 

[273]

Add better heads than stock for even more power, Trick Flow probably be over kill though.
The main problem with your original plan was way too much cam for streetable 318 power.
Most street cars will never see above 5000-5500 rpm 99% of the time, idle to 3000 rpm is where your mainly at.
So want a cam that works idle-5000 rpm with a lift that's make good use of chosen head, stock head .450"-.500", lift is more streetable power than duration.

You could also always add 4" stroke make the 318 feel more like a big block.

 

[Mattax]

So what changes to my initial idea do you guys suggest? I posted this to get corrected.

I think you need to aim at the real target.

Another thing is that owner of the car is simply looking for some extra power... He wants to keep it 318, keep reasonable gas mileage and make it good long distance cruiser with some extra kick.

If these are the real goals, then shooting for high power is the wrong target.
Stock 318 is very reasonable gas milage. We (my folks) got 21 mpg on the highway with our then brand new 1969 318 4 door Belvidere equiped with slushbox and a/c.
Especially with a 3 speed torqueflite, gearing will matter for good fuel milage. In parades, stoplights, idling milage is zed, zero, zip. Measure gallons per hour like a boat.
Long distance cruiser. Already stated - stock is a solid performer.
Extra kick. OK. But where?
Off the line? Then how about a low first gear? That's doable option.
Passing on the highway? Fair enough. The two barrel and exhaust are somewhat restrictive at these rpms. A well tuned small four barrel set up and dual exhausts can aid there and if done right, shouldn't hurt the other goals.

 

[RustyRatRod]

You guys are totally spoiled by easy access to all the parts and cheapness off all this stuff. Please understand that every single part costs me 2x the price on summit after I get it shipped and taxed. Also 300$ block for you is 1000$ block to me due to weight and size.
Another thing is that owner of the car is simply looking for some extra power. He initially planned to leave the 318 stock, so probably like 200hp. After he saw the change in 240hp 72 daemon I mentioned earlier he started thinking that it could be good to get some more power. He has plenty of fast cars, that includes 68 charger with 511 hemi and also 1200hp hemi coronet for 1/4 mile racing. He has enough race cars but if his wagon can run better with some mods, why not do them? He wants to keep it 318, keep reasonable gas mileage and make it good long distance cruiser with some extra kick.

You have NO idea who you're talkin to. I just came in from cleaning up my next project engine. A Chrysler 400. Cleaning up used stock pistons.....to be used again, because I cannot afford all the "easy access and cheapness" you talk about, so I have to use what I have.

 

[Miszny]

You have NO idea who you're talkin to. I just came in from cleaning up my next project engine. A Chrysler 400. Cleaning up used stock pistons.....to be used again, because I cannot afford all the "easy access and cheapness" o you talk about, so I have to use what I have.

So You should understand the fact that I am trying to use what I have. Yet you just bash the 318 idea with big block as the only option

 

[rumblefish360]

Build your 318 as stated but do yourself a favor and supercharge it! Then all will be fine.