Highest HP /6 ?

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Badvert65

Long Time Mopar Nut
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So, I have been calculating some horsepower figures based on some slant six records. It seems like the highest power for a normally aspirated slant is about 300 HP (Doug Dutra).
Does anyone know if this is accurate?
-Matt
 
If anyone's done it, it would be Doug Dutra.
 
I was just curious how far people might have gotten with normal aspiration on these engines. I am just shooting for 225 (1 HP per cubic inch).
-Matt
 
I was just curious how far people might have gotten with normal aspiration on these engines. I am just shooting for 225 (1 HP per cubic inch).
-Matt

It can and has been done, but be prepared for a finiky, race type engine at that power level. That's why turbos are popular on slants. Simular power, but more drivability.
 
Mark Goodman, has turned a 10.87 second quarter-mile time with a 242ci Slant 6.
 
Mark Goodman, has turned a 10.87 second quarter-mile time with a 242ci Slant 6.

yes he has for sure, seen it like many others. you would think he would share his receipe!!! LOL

one thing about Mark's times... it does give a lot of credibility to the slant. not that i'm saying his power level was obtained thru any small $$$ ???????
 
yes he has for sure, seen it like many others. you would think he would share his receipe!!! LOL

one thing about Mark's times... it does give a lot of credibility to the slant. not that i'm saying his power level was obtained thru any small $$$ ???????

Mark's green Lancer ('62?) is really fast for a naturally-aspirated slant six. The numbers that the online Wallace calculator give for his performance are as follows: 10.87 hauling 2,370 pounds (2,200 pounds, plus 170 pounds, driver weight,) require 364 horsepower, and the horsepower to go 119mph at that weight, requires 320hp... indicating that Mark is getting some help from the kinetic energy stored in a heavy flywheel spinning at a high rpm before the clutch is dumped for the launch. That utilized energy will show up on the e.t., but is momentary, so isn't very much in evidence on the mph. Hence the discrepancy in hp figures, from the e.t. to the mph.

If you're really interested in engine output, I'd say, go with the mph figures, since they're not skewed by the utilization of the stored energy in the spinning flywheel.

Even using the lower figures from the mph, (320) he scores an impressive 1.32 horsepower per cubic inch, NORMALLY ASPIRATED!

Given the asthmatic architecture of the slant six cylinder head, that is just amazing!!!! But, to achieve the Hellcat trouncing performance his car displays, he has taken about 400 pounds of ground-hugging weight out of that car. I say, more power to him!!!:cheers: There's more than one way to skin a (Hell) cat! AND, HE DID!!! :blob:

FABO memeber Mopar805kid built a streetable slant six that was naturally-aspirated, with maybe not ALL, but a LOT of bells and whistles, leaving very little on the table, and after months of tender love and care, could only manage about 99 mph out of his 3,000-pound '68 Dart, which is indicative of about 246 horsepower (@ 3,000-pounds plus 170 pound driver weight.)

Still, that is over 1 horsepower per cubic inch (1.1) out of a street motor, with a strangulated cylinder head... not bad at all... Impressive, really!

The restrictive cylinder head is the Achilles Heel of any slant six motor, and there doesn't seem to be any way to fix what's wrong with it. The higher-ups mandated a short (lengthwise) motor when the Valiant was being designed, and the only way to get one (out of an inline six,) was to make the specs for the bore-center spacing "close," so they did, ending up with some very skinnny 3.4" bores. That left no room for decent size valves, and the engineers designed ports to match those smallish valves. The head really worked well on the 170 it was designed for, but when they modified it to get the 225, they stroked it a FULL INCH, for a 33-percent increase in size, they didn't do anything at all for the breathing; that's why it is so unresponsive to normal hot rod methodology for power increases.

The only thing that seems to bring it into the big leagues as far as power-output is concerned, is forced induction.

Getting 500 horsepower out of a 225 is readily available with a flat tappet cam, one four barrel carb (properly tuned, ) and a 5,500 rpm redline.

Two FABO members (Tom Wolfe and Ryan Patterson) have built engines that have posted numbers that are indicative of that power output, with Ryan's car, at 2800 pounds, sans driver, runnning 10.74, pulling a big 727 transmission, (@ 127 mph) and Tom's 400-pound heavier '70 Dart, running into a 15mph headwind, posting an equally-impressive, 11-flat at 120mph.

Here are the videos, for those of you who might have not seen them:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QzUfV8iTpQ"]Turbo Slant Six 10.74 @ 127 mph 7-19-10 - YouTube[/ame]
and
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAxRmoDgsdY"]Turbo charged Slant 6 11.02 @ 120.56 - YouTube[/ame]

The amazingly strong, sturdy block and head permit boost levels in a slant six that would turn most other engines into a bucket of broken parts, making it the perfect candidate for turbocharging or supercharging.

But, if you're not looking to build a car that can do serious battle with 340s and 360-s...
There is a different plan for those among us who don't have unlimited funds to shell out for a motor: There are degrees of forced induction that will allow performance improvements on a smaller scale, that can use stock repiprocating components (pistons, rods, and stock, unaltered cylinder heads) that will yield 200-250 horsepower with little in the way of expenditure for forged internals, but the performancce gains are nothing like those demonstrated by Tom's and Ryan's cars.
Limiting boost to ten pounds and spark advance to 18 degrees and running premiusm pump gas will yield a `4-second slant six car, if you're careful with the tuning.

And yes, a 250 horsepower slant six can be pretty entertaining!

You pays your money and you takes your choice! :D
 

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With an air shifted lenco and methanol.....FYI. You would see a HP drop going to gas and 904.

That is very true. I'm not sure the Lenco is less parasitic than a 904 (but, a five speed Lenco has to eat SOME horsepower; all those dragging sprags, but it enables the kinetic energy stored in the spinning flywheel to help,) but the alcohol over gasoline is definitely a factor; just how much, I don't know... But, it's a well set up car and makes good use of every available foot-pound of torque... nothing is wasted.
 
Here are some facts about the green '61 Lancer:

Built in '94/'95 by Brent Laney, Wes Alumbaugh and Mark Goodman
Started life with a powerglide, then 350 turbo, now 5-speed Jerico with AFT clutch 9"single disc
SBC aluminum flywheel with a 130 tooth mopar starter ring adapted
Jerico is .4 quicker than the automatic
Jerico installed in '99
2437 lbs with driver
5.13 8 3/4, 4-link, Strange strut front end, 3x2 mild steel chassis, all steel body
Installed '62 grille which is 9.5 lbs lighter than the '61 grille
.135 overbore filled block to the deck, head welded so no water contacts the copper head gasket.
Stock stroke now but have run 4.200
Roller cam with sbm roller lifters
Pete Jackson gear drive for a bbm gear drive fits with cam spacer
Hilborn 2" throttle bodies on a homemade intake
Dry sump oiling
Electromotive crank trigger ignition
Sold the Lancer in 2004 bought back in 2011 never raced during that time
Lancer went [email protected] at St. Louis in 2002 with 70% alky and 30% nitro
No nitro since 2002, never got caught but I've heard the tracks don't like nitro in a bracket car
Converting to gas to set more SSRN records
 
While speculation can be lots of fun, I find facts more satisfying, thanks for the post!!
If You don't mind, a couple of additional items of interest answered, would be appreciated. Unless they're closely guarded secrets, of course!:)
1; crank mods/rods
2;squeeze ur able to run w/alky vs. what you expect to run /gas
3;what RPM's is that thing hitting, & how long are the runners?
4;did you move the guides to take adv. of the overbore or use valves that fit stk.
5;brand of pump/oiling system
Congrats on an impressive /6 race machine, & continued success!!:thumrigh:
 
Not many secrets.

1. Ran a stock crankshaft offset ground to SBC journal size with a stroke of 4.200 for years but it would twist the crankshaft front to back .060 plus after 50-60 passes. Now we have a billet Crower with a stroke of 4.125. R & R aluminum rods 7.000. Went to aluminum rods in 2000 after pulling a 198 rod apart, our only engine failure in racing slants for 25 years.
2. Secret area. Hope to run 11.20's on gas.
3. Leave at 6200. Shift at 6600. Cross the finish line at 6800. Rev limit at 7100. I'll check on the runner length.
4. Didn't move the guides but sounds like a good idea.
5. R & R 3 stage dry sump pump
 
Not many secrets.

1. Ran a stock crankshaft offset ground to SBC journal size with a stroke of 4.200 for years but it would twist the crankshaft front to back .060 plus after 50-60 passes. Now we have a billet Crower with a stroke of 4.125. R & R aluminum rods 7.000. Went to aluminum rods in 2000 after pulling a 198 rod apart, our only engine failure in racing slants for 25 years.
2. Secret area. Hope to run 11.20's on gas.
3. Leave at 6200. Shift at 6600. Cross the finish line at 6800. Rev limit at 7100. I'll check on the runner length.
4. Didn't move the guides but sounds like a good idea.
5. R & R 3 stage dry sump pump


Thanks a ton for all that good information!

I knew a little about the specs of that car, but had some bad information, along with the good. Unfortunately, I put some of that in a note about the car; for that, I apologize.

I had it in my mind that it had a Lenco in it, not a Jerico.

I just want to reiterate that I really DO appreciate the time you took to write the explanation of why that car is so fast; you didn't leave much out...

My car would have been at that Mo-Kan race, but I couldn't get my &^%$#@&%!!! trailer out of my swamp of a back yard!

I am looking forward to seeing you and the mean. green, Lancer at the Centerville Mopar race, and running you heads up, although I am not sure I can give you any kind of a race; I will try to have my car somewhat dialed in by then, but who knows??? It's never been down a drag strip, at this point.... and, I am only working with ten pounds of boost, to begin with. These things are not like a small block Chevy, with scores of known combinations to choose from that will give guaranteed results every time. It's.. complicated. :prayer:

Congratulations on making that Hellcat look like the winner of the next race... LOL!
 

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Thanks to all for the kind words about the Lancer.

Bill it would be fantastic if you could make the Centerville race. We want to see your car and ask questions because next winters project is putting a turbo on a '62 Valiant. We hope to have the Lancer at Centerville.

Not sure on heads up, but we will give it our best effort.
 
Thanks to all for the kind words about the Lancer.

Bill it would be fantastic if you could make the Centerville race. We want to see your car and ask questions because next winters project is putting a turbo on a '62 Valiant. We hope to have the Lancer at Centerville.

Not sure on heads up, but we will give it our best effort.

I am looking forward to that race. If I can stay within a trainlength of that Lancer, I'll feel good about my car. If I don't blow it up, it should be faster the next time you see it (more boost.) Newbie blues, here...

I am very much interested in the turbo Valiant you mentioned. I would love to be informed as to your progress; if it runs anything like your Lancer, it will be KILLER!!!:cheers:


Keep me updated, please...

Hope to see you soon!
 
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