Holy Crap!! The price of Paint.....

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Tincup

Tincup

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I just purchased 1 pint of PPG base (DBC) and it cost me $74 WTF! and it is not even red! The guy told me a gallon ( which I will probably need to do all the jambs and everything) is $360.. This is not my first Rodeo, I know the stuff is expensive, but I think it has doubled since the last time I bought any. I know there are other "Value" brands out there, but I have always used PPG and have never had a problem, so I guess it will set me back over a Grand just for materials..Ouch!
 
i bought 3 quarts of ppg concept single stage for my dart 100.00 per quart.
not icluding activator and reducer.


how come i want so much for my car.?? heres the receipts

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Ya paint got expensive real fast when the price of crude went sky high plus all the EPA requirements the manufacturer has to go thru to sell cyno-acryllic paint today. The days of the $400 laquer paint jobs has died and taken my money with it.
 
Ah the good ol' days. Single stage enamel held up great on real metal. It didn't need to be flexible or contain all those UV additives.
This is just FYI... Remember when the plastic filler between body and a shock bumper would rot away. The plastic hasn't gotten much more stable over the years. The UV protection that saves todays plastic bumper cover, etc., is in the paint.
 
www.paintforcars.com
Granted I had a hiccup with them in the past, they resolved the problem, and you can get lacquer at 79-85 a gallon.
Their good base coat / clear coat is under 200 bucks for color, clear and activators.
 
How much is it if you buy a quart from your local body shop and have them mix the color? My cousin works for a body shop and they use PPG. He told me when he does the paint for my car, we should buy it and mix it at the shop he works at because I would not find a cheaper price.
 
Not only paint, but Holy Cow, the price of console parts. Wanting to put a console in the Superbee, almost $1000 for all the pieces, Holy Cow.
 
wait until 2012 when the gun/equipment you have wont spray the water based paints.
 
I really like Nason's acrylic urethane single stage line. lays down nice and is a reasonable cost. A gallon of B5 ran me $125 (year and half ago) and with reducer, hardener, a gallon of sealer, tack rags, and a couple of gun filters, I was out the door for $325.
 
The price of paint is ridiculous. The paint for my Dart was $850 for a gallon.
 
I always loved this back when Pop and I were restoring, using nothing but PPG, DBC usually, covered in 2001 then the switch to 2002. I'd write an estimate and have someone say "geeze, the guy up the street quoted me $1000.00 for the whole job." Always cracked me up when I told 'em to stop comparing apples to oranges. For a grand I couldn't buy all the material needed for the job and put it in the trunk for 'em.
 
Check out these pics. I bought a pint of a Dupont flexible ready to paint dye for the blue. I used it on the armrests, dash, dash pad, and a pillar trim. I used a Dupont bahama blue paint that needed mixing to paint all the other blue on this interior. This was done because I wanted a lighter color to bring life to the interior. I also had to use a Dupont flexible ready to paint white dye for some of the white smaller parts in the interior also. The end result was well worth it but man did it cost me. I bitched about spending $1500 bucks on the made from scratch custom seat covers. I made alot more noise for the two quarts of paint I used. What the heck happened to the paint prices? Guess Earl Schieb wont be painting any more cars for $99.95 like the good ole days??
Chas.

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new car pics 035.JPG
 
you think thats bad my house of kolor tangelo pearl cost almost 2k with the clear
 
ChazRam said:
Check out these pics. I bought a pint of a Dupont flexible ready to paint dye for the blue. I used it on the armrests, dash, dash pad, and a pillar trim. I used a Dupont bahama blue paint that needed mixing to paint all the other blue on this interior. This was done because I wanted a lighter color to bring life to the interior. I also had to use a Dupont flexible ready to paint white dye for some of the white smaller parts in the interior also. The end result was well worth it but man did it cost me. I bitched about spending $1500 bucks on the made from scratch custom seat covers. I made alot more noise for the two quarts of paint I used. What the heck happened to the paint prices? Guess Earl Schieb wont be painting any more cars for $99.95 like the good ole days??
Chas.
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That interior looks fantastic, I guess it's like anything else, you get what you pay for. Of all the areas to skimp on a resto, paint is not one of them (IMO).
 
Tincup said:
That interior looks fantastic, I guess it's like anything else, you get what you pay for. Of all the areas to skimp on a resto, paint is not one of them (IMO).
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Exactly. For the average car show attendee, besides the make or model of a car, the paint work is what draws the eye towards the car. No matter what you may have done underneath the paint, new quarters, pans, etc, no one can see this. But they can see the paint work right off the bat.
You can run a cheaper line of paint, say Shopline or Omni, and have it look good, but will it last as long or be as durable as the higher line? There's a reason why it's cheaper and usually the paint manufacturer won't warranty their lower lines. You can spend half the price now and have it last ten years if maintained well or spend all of it up front and as long as it's maintained and have it last a life time, standing up to UV, chemical spills, acid rain, etc.
Take a look at it this way: used car dealers use a lower line. It's good enough to get a car off the lot without having to put a lot of money into it. Collision Pro shops, who have to warranty their work for the insurance company, use a high line. See the difference?
 
I was going to complain about spending 700 a gallon for the new plum crazy on the 2009 chargers.........I guess I may have to spend the $$ for it. Just need to find a decent bodyguy that can get the car prepped for nice paint.
 
ramenth said:
Exactly.
You can run a cheaper line of paint, say Shopline or Omni, and have it look good, but will it last as long or be as durable as the higher line? There's a reason why it's cheaper and usually the paint manufacturer won't warranty their lower lines. You can spend half the price now and have it last ten years if maintained well or spend all of it up front and as long as it's maintained and have it last a life time, standing up to UV, chemical spills, acid rain, etc.
Take a look at it this way: used car dealers use a lower line. It's good enough to get a car off the lot without having to put a lot of money into it. Collision Pro shops, who have to warranty their work for the insurance company, use a high line. See the difference?
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There is nothing wrong with most (not all) of the Shopline and some of the Omni paints from PPG. Most of the Shopline paints are actually PPG paints but relabeled without the warranty which is useless to the average guy, PPG will only warranty paint for the top end shops anyway so why pay for it especially if you are painting it yourself because they "will not" warranty anything done by the average person no matter what paint you use.

If you have a good PPG rep that is "honest" with you, they will tell you which Shopline paints are the same as the PPG label. Most paint suppliers won't tell you because they make more money off of the PPG label than the Shopeline. They have come out with a lot more in the Shopline in the last few years that is good paint. The Omni on the other hand I believe is becoming the bottom of the barrel.

That being said, you need to keep up with them to know what is the same because they change it periodically as they up grade or change the PPG line. What was the same paint 3 years ago may be a completely different paint today but still have the same Shopline or Omni label and part number. The Omni epoxy was the exact same epoxy as the PPG epoxy 5 years ago, but I was told they changed it since then and is no longer the same paint. I don't think I would use the Omni on anything I care about, I would however use the Shopline but I would check into it before buying it.
 
You guys need to check out Kirker paints at Auto Body Toolmart. $82/Gal with activator.
They have solids, clears, metalics/pearls and candys, the highest price I see is about $100/gal for the real special metalics.
They will send you a free color chart and catolouge
Andrew
 
T2R9 said:
I really like Nason's acrylic urethane single stage line. lays down nice and is a reasonable cost. A gallon of B5 ran me $125 (year and half ago) and with reducer, hardener, a gallon of sealer, tack rags, and a couple of gun filters, I was out the door for $325.
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Yep, my buddy Dana uses it quite a bit, MUCH cheaper than the regular Dupont stuff and he uses both. Not sure if some of it is the same exact paint as some of the Dupont (like the PPG/shopline comparison mentioned above)... but it seems like some of the pearls aren't quite as nice as the Dupont on some of the colors.
Also check out the Rubberseal clear, it has UV protection and seems to flow real nice at a fraction of the cost of some of the high end stuff. Not sure about the durability of it but have not heard nothing bad, yet...
 
blue missile said:
You guys need to check out Kirker paints at Auto Body Toolmart. $82/Gal with activator.
They have solids, clears, metalics/pearls and candys, the highest price I see is about $100/gal for the real special metalics.
They will send you a free color chart and catolouge
Andrew
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Had not even heard of them before now, I will definitely send for a catalog. I can't see why the cheaper stuff can't at least be used in the trunk/jams etc....

Anyone used the stuff from Summit or know who makes it?
 
Blownfish said:
There is nothing wrong with most (not all) of the Shopline and some of the Omni paints from PPG. Most of the Shopline paints are actually PPG paints but relabeled without the warranty which is useless to the average guy, PPG will only warranty paint for the top end shops anyway so why pay for it especially if you are painting it yourself because they "will not" warranty anything done by the average person no matter what paint you use.

If you have a good PPG rep that is "honest" with you, they will tell you which Shopline paints are the same as the PPG label. Most paint suppliers won't tell you because they make more money off of the PPG label than the Shopeline. They have come out with a lot more in the Shopline in the last few years that is good paint. The Omni on the other hand I believe is becoming the bottom of the barrel.

That being said, you need to keep up with them to know what is the same because they change it periodically as they up grade or change the PPG line. What was the same paint 3 years ago may be a completely different paint today but still have the same Shopline or Omni label and part number. The Omni epoxy was the exact same epoxy as the PPG epoxy 5 years ago, but I was told they changed it since then and is no longer the same paint. I don't think I would use the Omni on anything I care about, I would however use the Shopline but I would check into it before buying it.
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I'm not disagreeing with you on your points, but it's because of the switch over on the lower lines that makes the lower lines just that. As you point out you won't get the warranty if you're a home painter without the certifications anyways. The point I was making was that even given the warranties, the warranties are backed on the higher line products for a reason. You're not going to find a PPG certified collision shop using the lower lines on Pro-shop collision repairs, even though the name of the game is to reduce overhead and increase profit. Not if the shop is honest and really does want to stand behind it's Pro rating.

Global was all the rage just five years ago. Expect for the ability to mix the base with the clear for jambing I was never impressed by it, simply because as you pointed out, according to my rep a lot of it was Concept relabeled. And I've had my rep tell me which Shoplines are really relabeled. But he can't tell me which one's I'll get the desired results out of. The quality control on the lower lines isn't represented like they are on the higher lines, relabeling or not. And that's coming from a Platinum supplier I've done business with for 20 years. I'll trust his word.

I've never really been impressed with the lower lines, even Shopline, because of the flow characteristics. Given the same temps, humidity, air flow, I've had the bases do different things than the last batch. Same way with the clears. But when you pull the trigger and have to start playing with the gun to get the proper flow-out and it's at the exact same settings you used the last you spray a given product can make for a long day, because you're now having to re-adjust to something that isn't acting the same way you used it last time. Omni, as you pointed out, is notorious for this. One time it might flow like water and lay in like glass. The next time, your gun might be at the same settings you used the last time, but it's flowing like molasses. Speed up the gun, fly low, slow down the gun crawl like a turtle. Shopline, at least, you might run through four or five batches before you have this happen.

At least with 2002, I know given a certain reducer, using DCX 61 or DFX 11, I can pull the trigger on my gun and know how the clear is going to act, the first time every time. And it's usually because of the consistancies of the higher lines you see the Pro shops use 'em, too. The boss doesn't want the painters to have to relearn the product every time they paint.

I think one of the things you and I will point out, though, for everyone: make friends with your paint supplier. Tell him what you've got cooking, what your desired results are, and what your budget is. Find one you can trust, who's been in the business for a quiet a while. I would recommend a body shop supplier, not a parts supplier, because the training on paint products for a body shop supplier is there, not necessarily so with a parts store selling paints.
 
ramenth said:
I'm not disagreeing with you on your points, but it's because of the switch over on the lower lines that makes the lower lines just that. As you point out you won't get the warranty if you're a home painter without the certifications anyways. The point I was making was that even given the warranties, the warranties are backed on the higher line products for a reason. You're not going to find a PPG certified collision shop using the lower lines on Pro-shop collision repairs, even though the name of the game is to reduce overhead and increase profit. Not if the shop is honest and really does want to stand behind it's Pro rating.

Global was all the rage just five years ago. Expect for the ability to mix the base with the clear for jambing I was never impressed by it, simply because as you pointed out, according to my rep a lot of it was Concept relabeled. And I've had my rep tell me which Shoplines are really relabeled. But he can't tell me which one's I'll get the desired results out of. The quality control on the lower lines isn't represented like they are on the higher lines, relabeling or not. And that's coming from a Platinum supplier I've done business with for 20 years. I'll trust his word.

I've never really been impressed with the lower lines, even Shopline, because of the flow characteristics. Given the same temps, humidity, air flow, I've had the bases do different things than the last batch. Same way with the clears. But when you pull the trigger and have to start playing with the gun to get the proper flow-out and it's at the exact same settings you used the last you spray a given product can make for a long day, because you're now having to re-adjust to something that isn't acting the same way you used it last time. Omni, as you pointed out, is notorious for this. One time it might flow like water and lay in like glass. The next time, your gun might be at the same settings you used the last time, but it's flowing like molasses. Speed up the gun, fly low, slow down the gun crawl like a turtle. Shopline, at least, you might run through four or five batches before you have this happen.

At least with 2002, I know given a certain reducer, using DCX 61 or DFX 11, I can pull the trigger on my gun and know how the clear is going to act, the first time every time. And it's usually because of the consistancies of the higher lines you see the Pro shops use 'em, too. The boss doesn't want the painters to have to relearn the product every time they paint.

I think one of the things you and I will point out, though, for everyone: make friends with your paint supplier. Tell him what you've got cooking, what your desired results are, and what your budget is. Find one you can trust, who's been in the business for a quiet a while. I would recommend a body shop supplier, not a parts supplier, because the training on paint products for a body shop supplier is there, not necessarily so with a parts store selling paints.
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I agree,

I just think to the average guy doing it at home in the driveway and not in a booth isn't going to notice the spray consistencies like an experienced person such as yourself will. Shopline the best deal for that type of person and it won't break the bank.


I seen a few guys mention Nason paint. It may spray good, but that is the bottom of the barrel, it isn't any better than the paint Macco or Earl Scheib uses. It will look good for a year or two then will dull off fast, there is hardly any UV protection in it, if any. It may last longer if you constantly wax it and keep it in a garage.
 
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