Honing plate question

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Valvebounce

Valvebounce

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Bit of a newbie honing plate question,
When an engine is being honed with them, does it need a plate torqued down on both banks? Or just on the side being honed?
I realise that While cast iron isn't as ridged as granite, (Hence using honing plates) but it is standard practise to have the main caps torqued down as well.
So does the "Other" bank effect the one being worked on?
I'm about the start trying to find a shop who has some. But mopar stuff isn't as common here. (Lots of chev and ford shite) So if I draw a blank I'll have to get a mate to make me one. (Or two?)
 
If u r building a race engine and there are titles on the line...u could get very meticulous/overkill or what have u..
Deck distortion makes bore distortion in the most critical part of the bore itself, although its somewhat minor when it comes to ring seal and wear...its still worth a horse power increase....however, did the factory do it? Were torque plates relevant in the previous decades before other than racing engines?
Some things while a good idea...only have come about as more common practice recently.
I can't tell you how many engines I've put together that made big power and never had a torque plate within a hundred yards of them..but if I had the choice I would use torque plates. Just food for thought..
As for the opposite bank...I would not worry about it. Just plate the side being bored, and if u could feel the diff in the first place...u r special.lol
 
Thanks Justin.
Spoke to the shop that'll most likely be doing the work today. They only have ford and chev ones. At least the guy was honest, some of the snakes that masquerade as engine reconditioners might have lied an said, "yeah mate we got one". And then not used one.
So I'm waiting to hear back from the guy who made one for another mate of mine. Since it's going to 4.080 it can't do any harm to use one.
 
You can mill the tops off and open some scrap heads and use them, Ghetto but almost free.
 
Torque plates make a difference, How much? I always use them. I use them on both banks, but as Wild and Crazy said, "I would not worry about it." You definately want to torque the mains, especially in inferior blocks (Chevrolet), the bottom of the bores get oval and there there goes your clearance with the piston skirts. This happens to ours to a lesser degree. The goal is to have round and straight bores after you put your engine together instead of before you put it together.
 
Although I've never found out for my self. An engine guy tried telling me that sb mopars don't suffer as much distortion as Chevy or Ford. I use then everytime.
 
I can measure the distortion with a dial bore gage. Technically if the plate is not on, the bores should be slightly out of round at the top 1 1/2". That's where the rings are working the hardest. It's worth measurable power, which is why I bought my own plates. You don't need the opposite bank, but you do need the mains torqued. If you don;t have a plate, you can also use flat ground washers, stacked up to about 3/4" thick on each head bolt. Andy F. did an experiment with that and it was the same affect as a torque plate.
 
Torque plates distort the bores about .001"-.0015" at most around the head bolt holes. This is because if you picture how a 60* thread is made you can visualize how under clamping pressure (bolt torque) these two surfaces are trying to get away from each other.

Do you need one for each bank? Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Are they worth power? Probably not easily measured, especially if your honing techniques are pretty good as is.

Torque the mains? Sure-Why not? It's free and easy. Will it affect the bores? Seriously doubtful, but it can't hurt.

Something not mentioned yet is using the head gasket between the plate and block deck. Do I do it? Yes I do. Does it affect anything that I can measure? Nope-but it comes in handy when pressure testing.

All in all I have them because I can make them myself and they make my customers feel better about me that I have them. Be aware though that if you ask your machinist to use them that they do eat up time and time is $$$$$. There is usually two separate charges for honing with and without plates. Here is a shot of mine 2" thick grey iron-heavy pig. J.Rob
 

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Thanks RAMM.
I'm going to talk to a local foundry on monday to see what they'd charge to cast one for us if we supply the pattern for it. It'd cost at least a hundy bucks for a billet of steel to make one. Plus with a casting, it'll reduce the amount of machining required given the abilty to cast voids into the spaces were the Bores go. As well as that, we'll have it forever. And people might want to use it for their engines too. (Which may recoup the cost over time)
 
I've seen almost 2 thou of distortion on certain blocks after the torque plate has been removed. I'd say thats worth quite a bit of ring seal. I do think It was a Chevy motor(400 small block), but a 440 has quite a bit as well.
 
I spoke to the old boy at the foundry today. He told me to come back tomorrow, (Which I need to do for work anyway) and He'd be able to give me a definate price.
although in a stroke of luck, yesterday I bought a CNC'd billet aluminium side plate for my Aussie 265 hemi 6, and the guy from whom I bought it works at a place that has a profile cutter. So he's going to get me a price to have a plate profile cut too.
Odd are I'll go with which ever one is cheaper.
I expect the profile cut plate would need less machining than a dirty old casting though.
 
What would the minimum thickness that a honiing plate could be and still work?
I spoke to a local mopar fiend, and he can get one profile cut cheaply. But the thickest they can cut is 1". Would that be thick enough? Or should I try doubling it up?
 
It's been a while since I looked at mine close - but I think they are about 2" thick total, but the bolt hole flanges are only about .750". If you can get it 1", have the holes faced flat at about .750" thick I think you're fine.
 
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