If the auto industry built their product to zero tolerance I would fall for this. They do not. Collision repair needs to be done on the rack. If not.. there could be some concessions.
How bad is this?
- Thread starter MexDartSport
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Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Technically true, and you're not wrong and most of the time it's no problem..
But there's "force" and there's "force". My last claim, one shop I was offered "two weeks back on the road", the other shop (that I knew had higher rates, but far better work) would be a "minimum of 6 months" and lots of implied hassle for a loaner etc (claimed there would need to be waivers, in person adjusters, pictures, submission of costs for approval, etc). There were also caveats of "we'll pay an average of the most reasonable bids, and won't pay if a shop goes over that average" etc, etc. Technically they can't do any of that either, but they have all the leverage in most cases. Getting it done right was going to be a massive headache. "But you can still take it where you want". In this instance it was some no name insurance used by people who've had duis and have trouble getting coverage. Process wound up taking 7 damn months of them calling on nights and weekends (when our ringers are off, which they knew) and then not answering when we called until I threatened to sue their client. Had a check 4 days later.. That's how these places roll. Make it tough and hope you give up or take the easy route - if you challenge or threaten them they suddenly cough up and claim "you're whole" and thus have no grounds for complaint...
Damage wasn't horrible and it's my shitbox daily so I took the cash (which was only $40 under the bid from the shop I preferred but which the insurance claimed would take forever and be a hassle). Since the car is kind of obscure parts arent cheap or easy to come by so I made out pretty damn good in fact! LOL.
Way back in time I went through the same thing after borrowing a car and then getting hit in a hit n run. Was a brand new jeep and the owner wanted it "right". Took a year to replace a wheel and a fender on a TJ. The insurance insisted on buying the parts, the parts were "lost", "damaged in shipping", they tried to buy used parts and claim they were new... Etc. It was obvious retaliation for not going to the preferred shop. But they "let us" take it where we wanted.. (geico, BTW).
From what I see in the picture and what I have experienced that car didn't take a bumper shot. Pull the quarter and try straightening whats there. . This car was hit the same way both sides. We straightened it and kept the panels. Its called metal work . The quarter must be stripped of all paint and filler. That is why I asked how much bondo ia in the car. If they would cut the quarter off before the car is straightened then they don't know what they are doing.
Start looking at the gaps and the roof that upper body was tweaked. I don't believe the frame was unless the upper body shot pulled it up.
The car should be set on a fixture for a 108 wheel base set up as seen in the picture that my Demon is on. The only thing that has to be removed from the car is the bumpers . There are pin holes in the frames where it sets in the stands put there from the factory. Find a resto shop with a fixture for your body style.
![DSCF0047[1].jpg](https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/dscf0047-1-jpg.1715627176/ "DSCF0047[1].jpg")
![b40[1].jpg](https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/b40-1-jpg.1715627177/ "b40[1].jpg")
Start looking at the gaps and the roof that upper body was tweaked. I don't believe the frame was unless the upper body shot pulled it up.
The car should be set on a fixture for a 108 wheel base set up as seen in the picture that my Demon is on. The only thing that has to be removed from the car is the bumpers . There are pin holes in the frames where it sets in the stands put there from the factory. Find a resto shop with a fixture for your body style.
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Zero tolerance????
If you know anything about manufacturing, you would know that every process has a tolerance... It is impossible to manufacture parts to zero tolerance....
The head machining line that I worked on had a valve seat runout tolerance of .013 mm (13 microns) which is smaller than the diameter of a hair...
The frame tech guy could pull frames straight with his machine and was good at it... Like I said, if he couldn't pull it straight, it was too far damaged to be fixed... He's been in business for over 30 years and always has two weeks of work to do... He had the proper rack with frame pulling equipment to pull the frames and get them straight within tolerance...
Everything has a tolerance... The body section of an assembly plant builds to a tolerance of +/- 3 mm, it is literally impossible to build a body with zero tolerance... Assembly plants have dedicated fixtures and jigs specially made for each particular part to locate each body panel before welding them... Even with those fixtures it is impossible to have zero tolerance...
Zero tolerance is a term used to set the limits for behavior which applies to sexual harassment or discrimination, not manufacturing...
Your screen name is bodyperson, do you do body work??? Can you install a quarter panel or fender dead nuts every time??? Can you do it once right to the nominal spec??? Do you even have the ability to measure the panels that you install accurately or even at all??? Do you have a dedicated fixture/gauge to measure every panel that you install???
The answer to all of those questions is NO... Every process has a tolerance, some can be held tighter than others... Nobody can build to a tolerance of +/- 0.000
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
There also won’t be much negotiating for his insurance carrier since he was DUI and the police got him.
15k should cover it.
15k should cover it.
MexDartSport
Member
I got under there yesterday and tried eye-balling it to see if that part of the frame you're talking about was bent and it seemed pretty straight to me. I will definitely have someone with more experience check it out, though.
A good man on the frame machine could pull a lot of that out.
MexDartSport
Member
Thanks. I've been going through old threads to see how other people have approached this situation and am starting to see this pattern. I don't really want to settle for whatever chain body shop their insurance co. will send me to, so I've already started shopping around and collecting some part numbers, proof of value, and whatnot. I plan on taking it to a couple of different classic/resto body shops here in the next couple of weeks for estimates so that I can lay out exactly what needs to be done whenever I get the claims adjuster knocking on my door. There shouldn't be any hassle on their part given the circumstances, but I want to be prepared.
MexDartSport
Member
This is awesome. Thanks for the info.
If you look close at the orange Duster you can see where the corner of the quarter was drilled top and bottom and the holes were welded back in. I drilled the corner of two short pieces of angle iron. I put it behind the end of the quarter. I then put an eye bolt through the quarter and pulled the angle. This Duster was worse then yours. The trunk lid was out past the tail panel almost 1-2 inches. That is the original tail panel and the quarters . My brown Duster was hit the same way on one side like yours. When they are bent like the last pictures there is no hope. A little more than the " 3mm. tolerance would allow. LOL
![DSCF0047[1].jpg](https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/dscf0047-1-jpg.1715627231/ "DSCF0047[1].jpg")
I handle about 3 million dollars in auto insurance claims a year so I know where you're coming from. I challenge them daily. If you had a shop handling your claim they should be doing the leg work for you. It's up to the shop to negotiate the price, and if you have a good shop they then fix the car properly no.matter the agreed price. Also, don't agree to settle the claim until the car is finished. There is almost always supplemental damages that will need to be paid while the repair is on process. Don't cash out on the claim. This is how the minimize their severity.
Insurance companies don't order parts. They choose specific parts based on many factors mainly cost effectiveness. It's up the the repair facility to negotiate these prices and part types. And also remember used parts are usually no more used than the ones on your car.
Also to the original poster, if you need a repair estimate written I can assist you with it. I would just need to know the labor and material rates in your area.
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MexDartSport
Member
Thank you. I sent you a PM.
You are only proving my point. They can't be built to zero tolerance. Did you read the first word of my post? "IF" Soooo, You cant ship them to a body shop and have everything fit. It needs to be built on the rack otherwise there may be fitment issues because of the tolerances you described. Heaven forbid its a grand-am with pierce and form manufacturing. Anyway we are derailing this thread at this point and yes I have done a bit of collision repair. Been out of it for a few years now. I spent 8 of my 30plus years running 2 car-o-liner racks with car-o-tronics measuring system feeding 8 bodymen in a ICAR Gold certified multi million dollar shop. My last 16 years I was an ASE certified master. I've been fortunate to work for some people that paid for a lot of training for me.Zero tolerance????
If you know anything about manufacturing, you would know that every process has a tolerance... It is impossible to manufacture parts to zero tolerance....
The head machining line that I worked on had a valve seat runout tolerance of .013 mm (13 microns) which is smaller than the diameter of a hair...
The frame tech guy could pull frames straight with his machine and was good at it... Like I said, if he couldn't pull it straight, it was too far damaged to be fixed... He's been in business for over 30 years and always has two weeks of work to do... He had the proper rack with frame pulling equipment to pull the frames and get them straight within tolerance...
Everything has a tolerance... The body section of an assembly plant builds to a tolerance of +/- 3 mm, it is literally impossible to build a body with zero tolerance... Assembly plants have dedicated fixtures and jigs specially made for each particular part to locate each body panel before welding them... Even with those fixtures it is impossible to have zero tolerance...
Zero tolerance is a term used to set the limits for behavior which applies to sexual harassment or discrimination, not manufacturing...
Your screen name is bodyperson, do you do body work??? Can you install a quarter panel or fender dead nuts every time??? Can you do it once right to the nominal spec??? Do you even have the ability to measure the panels that you install accurately or even at all??? Do you have a dedicated fixture/gauge to measure every panel that you install???
The answer to all of those questions is NO... Every process has a tolerance, some can be held tighter than others... Nobody can build to a tolerance of +/- 0.000
Demonic
Well-Known Member
Good advice in post #28, and others. Take your time and find a good shop that knows how to pull correctly, and work the metal back into shape.
Looks like green with a white top is not a lucky combination:
I didn't see it happen but I was parked in a lot just below the main road level, buddy was loaded and kept going straight at high speed instead of following the curve of the road. His car flew clear over about 20 feet of grass and landed on top of my car first and then did a barrel roll bouncing on three more cars before his car landed upside down in someone's pickup truck box. He was still hanging upside down with his seat belt holding him when the cops arrived. Took just over 9 months of phoning his insurance company almost daily before I finally got paid. Fun times with insurance!!
I didn't see it happen but I was parked in a lot just below the main road level, buddy was loaded and kept going straight at high speed instead of following the curve of the road. His car flew clear over about 20 feet of grass and landed on top of my car first and then did a barrel roll bouncing on three more cars before his car landed upside down in someone's pickup truck box. He was still hanging upside down with his seat belt holding him when the cops arrived. Took just over 9 months of phoning his insurance company almost daily before I finally got paid. Fun times with insurance!!
pishta
I know I'm right....
Last time I got hit I got 3 estimates and they cut a check for the lowest estimate. Its been a while but I think I got 5 estimates and turned in the 3 highest estimates. I avoided Maaco, and another chain. Turns out Maaco did an excellent paint job on my LS400 a few years later. Could not even tell the panel was repainted color matching and quality wise.
It's BAD. Sorry. You need to find someone who does collision work and restores vehicles. Look at some of there on going work and completed jobs. Don't go to a one man shop (99% of the time) go to someone with a crew. Let them write the estimate not the insurance company. When you find the shop you want have the give you a time in writing also. And listen to some of the other good advice given to you.
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