How does my contraption look??

[myasylum]

O.k. I installed my fuel regulator. I'm looking for opinions here.
I could flip the regulator around to the other side, but then the fuel line is too long, and the 90 degree fitting sits right over the valve cover. If I take off the valve cover off then I'd have to also take off the fuel line, so that is why I have it like this.
Is there a issue with the fuel line being so close to the radiator hoses?

Any other Ideas you may suggest?

Thanks much!

Oh, what should I have the regulator set at? 7 PSI? Factory its suppose to be set up at 6.5. I haven't started it yet.

Thanks again!

 

[camd64]

You really shouldn't put your filter over the alt. bad idea having gas and metal right over something electrical. I would put the regulator above the frame in the pocket below the alt. and run the line with a 90 over with a bracket to hold it steady. That way its safe and stll easy to adjust and get to it so you can work on it.

 

[myasylum]

I see your point. I moved it up a little (for now till I figure it out.)
(You believe that Alt is from 1976?

 

[caferacerx]

Rube Goldberg would be proud

 

[RustyRatRod]

is that a glass filter? that's a big nono. Also, I always mount the regulator on the passenger fender well and run the fuel line around behind the passenger valve cover from the rear. It is a lot neater lookin. Those dual lines will flip around backwards.

 

[myasylum]

Why is glass bad? I just like to be able to see if there is fuel there if the car isn't starting or something?

Man, you guys have the most interesting ideas! I have seen pictures with set up simular to mine, so I "assumed" it was proper?!?

I almost hate to ask... but how and why would you run a return line?

 

[ramcharger]

Why is glass bad?

Glass breaks. Imagine what would happen if you broke a fanbelt or got into a front end collision. Spin the entire reg around so the fuel inlet points towards the fender, put a metal filter on it and mount it to the fender. Yeah, the adjustment screw will be a bit harder to get at but you really shouldn't have to mess with it once it's set. Also, if that gauge is liquid filled, it will get stupid innacurate when it gets hot. I can't tell for sure but I don't think it is.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Why is glass bad? I just like to be able to see if there is fuel there if the car isn't starting or something?

Man, you guys have the most interesting ideas! I have seen pictures with set up simular to mine, so I "assumed" it was proper?!?

I almost hate to ask... but how and why would you run a return line?

Glass can and will breakin an accident. fuel will spill. fire will start. that would suck. This is why plastic and glass filters are not allowed on NHRA sanctioned tracks. whether you're ever gonna race or not, a metal fuel filter is best. Who said anything about a return line? Since you brought it up, it's an excellent idea. You can almost acheive the kind of driveability and good starting as fuel injection with a well thought out fuel system including a return line. The return line assures a constant supply of cool fuel to the carburetor without the fear of fuel "heat soak". this is when the fuel boils. It's a pretty common problem especially during the summer. Running a return also greatly reduces stress on the fuel pump. holleys are very easy to convert. Dominator fuel bowls are tapped on both the passenger and driver's sides allowing fittngs to be put in the drivers side of the bowls for a return line. Simply come off the carb and into a "T" fitting. Then, you'll need to add a restrictor in the line. A large Holley jet works really good. Takes a little fab work, but nothing a chimp couldn't do. If you can braze with a torch,drill and tap you can do it in under an hour. Just run the return line right along side the supply line. you'll need to drill the sending unit and add a nipple for the return line. I said nipple. heh heh heh huh huh huh.

 

[ramcharger]

I almost hate to ask... but how and why would you run a return line?

A return line is used with a by-pass style regulator on a carb'd car. One line in and one slightly smaller line out for the return. The advantages are less stress and a cooler running fuel pump and a cooler supply of fuel to the carb. It will eliminate any chance of vapor lock too. The only real down side is the cost for parts and plumbing the return line back into the fuel tank.

Edit: crap, SS beat me to it.

 

[HotLines]

I have seen many a fire from glass fuel filters and most times persons said to me that they wanted to see the fuel.

My personal opinion is the stick the hose between your Alt and Valve cover possibly using a clamp attached to a bolt on the front of the head although there are many other options.

Hope this helps

 

[RustyRatRod]

A return line is used with a by-pass style regulator on a carb'd car. One line in and one slightly smaller line out for the return. The advantages are less stress and a cooler running fuel pump and a cooler supply of fuel to the carb. It will eliminate any chance of vapor lock too. The only real down side is the cost for parts and plumbing the return line back into the fuel tank.

Edit: crap, SS beat me to it.

you make a good point....but honestly running a return off the regulator doesnt do the carb one lick of good. Seen tons of people do it though. The carb sits on top of the biggest heat source...the motor. THAT'S where the fuel interchange needs to take place, not at the regulator. I never have understood why people run um off the regulator. Runnin the return off the carb puts the carb smack dab in the middle of the fuel system right where it needs to be. You'd be surprised how much better they run when you rout the lines that way.

 

[ramcharger]

you make a good point....but honestly running a return off the regulator doesnt do the carb one lick of good.

By-pass regs are designed to be inline after carbs. The fuel flows in this order: Fuel tank, filter, HV pump, fuel log which feeds the carbs from two ports, then the reg and back to the tank, just like on many fuel injection systems. Keep in mind there are "dead head" style FI systems with no return off the fuel log.

The only possible way to route as you describe is with four port fuel bowls which are only really availible on Dominators and then the fuel would only cool the top of the carb float bowl. If this would be desired, no return jet would be needed, just another fuel log on the opposite side and then to the regulator and back to the tank. I've never tried this so I can't comment on any gains in regards to driveability with Dominator carbs. Dominators really aren't a street carb, and won't apply to the OPs question. Although they can be and are driven on the street, the cost and tuning requirements for a true street driven car generally preclude this sort of use.

Here's a good link with diagrams in regards to plumbing a return style regulator, note the last diagram:
http://www.barrygrant.com/bgfuel/default.aspx?page=85

The second diagram is for some super HV pumps that absolutely must have a non-regulated return for pump cooling.

 

[rumblefish360]

Nice link Ramcharger.

Myasylum;

For the most part, you'll not need to run a return line. If you have an electric fuel pump, it's not a bad idea. Like above, it's run cooler. (the pump) The carb will see less pressure due to being regulated at the regulator. But anytime the pump puts up more pressure than what it's supposed to be set at, the extra pressure just send the fuel back to the tank. This is where the fuel pump catchs a brake stress wise.

For cooler fuel, even though it's cool from the tank, run a cool can.

 

[RustyRatRod]

By-pass regs are designed to be inline after carbs. The fuel flows in this order: Fuel tank, filter, HV pump, fuel log which feeds the carbs from two ports, then the reg and back to the tank, just like on many fuel injection systems. Keep in mind there are "dead head" style FI systems with no return off the fuel log.

The only possible way to route as you describe is with four port fuel bowls which are only really availible on Dominators and then the fuel would only cool the top of the carb float bowl. If this would be desired, no return jet would be needed, just another fuel log on the opposite side and then to the regulator and back to the tank. I've never tried this so I can't comment on any gains in regards to driveability with Dominator carbs. Dominators really aren't a street carb, and won't apply to the OPs question. Although they can be and are driven on the street, the cost and tuning requirements for a true street driven car generally preclude this sort of use.

Here's a good link with diagrams in regards to plumbing a return style regulator, note the last diagram:
http://www.barrygrant.com/bgfuel/default.aspx?page=85

The second diagram is for some super HV pumps that absolutely must have a non-regulated return for pump cooling.

Only available on Dominators? Really? Then somebody needs to tell me that cause I've been buildin standard Holley bodies with Dominator float bowls for 25 years.

Carburetor badassery has been a hobby of mine pretty much ever since I could hold a screwdriver. See, doin it like this, puts the carburetor AS the fuel exchange point, so cool fuel is IN THE CARB all the time. If the regulator is the exchenge point, as you suggest......and thousands of articles like you posted,the fuel in the carb is never as cool as doin it my way. The dominator bowls are a bolt on mod for these carbs. I got mine on EvilBay for 12.95 ea. This particular carburetor I have moded heavily. It was originally just a little old 3310 750. I installed a rear metering block with jets, Dominator fuel bowls, adjustable secondary diaphragm, 50cc dominator accel pump and cam, electric choke, bigger pump squirters and clear sight plugs. I MIGHT have 100 bucks in what would be a 600 dollar carb new. If yall don't think runnin a return line on a mechanical pump will net any benefits, all I can tell you is, try it. You'll be frikkin sold. Especially routing the return with the dominator float bowls as I have outlined. This puts the carb in the CENTER of the fuel system instead of at one end. Constantly receiving cool fuel IN THE BOWLS is what this accomplishes. Again, yall can go read all the hot rod magazine articles you want to. I've been DOIN this for a long time and It WORKS. You'll NEVER have trouble with boiling fuel or vapor lock and the fuel system will work better than it was designed. ....just so you know, I was doin this before Barry Grant ever produced a carburetor.

 

[Kevin D.]

You really shouldn't put your filter over the alt. bad idea having gas and metal right over something electrical. I would put the regulator above the frame in the pocket below the alt. and run the line with a 90 over with a bracket to hold it steady. That way its safe and stll easy to adjust and get to it so you can work on it.

Thats how I did mine looks less cluttered and when I got rid of heater lines it really cleaned it up,Kevin.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Lemmie see if I can splain it better with pictures. Forgive my caveman drawing, but it's all I got. first, here is the diagram from Barry Grant.

Look at how the regulator is positioned. It will act like a restrictor to the carburetor trapping fuel AT the carb. The regulator in this diagram is actually plumbed in the return line.

Here is my caveman drawing. Yeah, I know it's rough, but bear with me, ok?

Notice the position of the regulator. It is in the supply line. Also, see how the carb is RIGHT between the supply and return lines. In this fashion, the carb itself becomes the exchange point for cool fresh fuel. And trust me, the ENTIRE fuel volume of the bowls is exchanged every few seconds, not just the top. And yes, a restriction is required in the return line. If there is none, the fuel pump will not be able to generate enough fuel pressure. I have tried it. I like the Holley jet idea in the return line, because that way, you can actyally taylor the return back pressure instead of it being fixed. Doin the fuel system like this makes the fuel go ACROSS the float bowls and covers the bowls completely. Doing it conventionally, you essentially are asking two things of the same line. Pressure and return. This isolates the return system completely. It allows warm fuel to be purged from the float bowls, releives stress from the fuel pump and recirculates the fuel at a much better rate. It's worked well for me for a long time and I know many more people that do the same. Lastly, you can do all this for about a third the cost of all that fancy stuff in the BG diagram. Does it work better than the BG system? Hell if I know. But it works for ME. Yeah I know.....there ain't no fuel pump in my caveman drawin. But let's pretend, ok?

 

[smlveightis]

Very interesting discussion going on here. Thanks.

 

[pauly v.100]

Very interesting discussion going on here. Thanks.

I agree, very informative.
what are you guys doing for the return at the tank end. I've got a plastic fuel cell and i don't believe theres a bung for a return line, go through the top?

 

[RustyRatRod]

On the early cars with the stock sendin unit, I just drill a hole through the sender base and braze on a return nipple. A lot of the later cars have the vapor return you can use as a solid fuel return. But yes, if your cell has no return provision, through the top is fine. A lot of cells are much like a factory tank in that you can drill and weld in a return nipple right in their sender base as well. Done it many times.

Also, one VERY important point that I left out. Notice the BG diagram. In order for the fuel to go back to the tank through the return line, it must flow into the carb, then CHANGE direction, go back through the SAME way it came in and out the return line. That's a lot of turbulance. Routing the return line in the fashion I outlined allows the fuel to flow the SAME direction the entire route of the fuel system.

 

[turbodart68]

Also, one VERY important point that I left out. Notice the BG diagram. In order for the fuel to go back to the tank through the return line, it must flow into the carb, then CHANGE direction, go back through the SAME way it came in and out the return line. That's a lot of turbulance. Routing the return line in the fashion I outlined allows the fuel to flow the SAME direction the entire route of the fuel system.

I disagree here. The carb gets its fuel from the log. The regulator at the end of the fuel log bleeds off the pressure and keeps cooler fuel on the log. The lines from the log to the carb inlet is stagnet unless the needles are open to fill the bowls. The fuel doesn't "turn around" its fed to the carb and doesnt leave until it goes through the venturi. I gather from your drawing and explanation that "your mod" with the dominator bowls keeps fresh fuel in the bowls. It doesn't since all the cross over in a Dominator fuel bowl does is bypass the needle (when its shut) and cross over to the other side. Really all your mod is doing is recycling the small amount of fuel in the lines that go from the log to the bowl. The BG set up is very effective at keeping your pump cool. It really doesn't affect the fuel in the bowls as a cooling measure, like Rumble said a cool can is the way to cool fuel. Actually probably the most effective cooling of the fuel is the pressure drop in the Venturi.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well, disagree all you care to. Unless you've actually run the setup as described, you'll never know the difference. Believe me, there is a difference. You said it yourself.....the needle DOES open.

 

[ramcharger]

Only available on Dominators? Really? Then somebody needs to tell me that cause I've been buildin standard Holley bodies with Dominator float bowls for 25 years.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Dominator float bowls are only availible on Holley Dominators. You can screw anything you want to anything but they are not availible on anything but a Dominator. I suppose you could buy them seperately but I never checked as I never had the need.


Carburetor badassery has been a hobby of mine pretty much ever since I could hold a screwdriver. See, doin it like this, puts the carburetor AS the fuel exchange point, so cool fuel is IN THE CARB all the time. If the regulator is the exchenge point, as you suggest......and thousands of articles like you posted,the fuel in the carb is never as cool as doin it my way. The dominator bowls are a bolt on mod for these carbs. I got mine on EvilBay for 12.95 ea. This particular carburetor I have moded heavily. It was originally just a little old 3310 750. I installed a rear metering block with jets, Dominator fuel bowls, adjustable secondary diaphragm, 50cc dominator accel pump and cam, electric choke, bigger pump squirters and clear sight plugs. I MIGHT have 100 bucks in what would be a 600 dollar carb new. If yall don't think runnin a return line on a mechanical pump will net any benefits, all I can tell you is, try it. You'll be frikkin sold. Especially routing the return with the dominator float bowls as I have outlined. This puts the carb in the CENTER of the fuel system instead of at one end. Constantly receiving cool fuel IN THE BOWLS is what this accomplishes. Again, yall can go read all the hot rod magazine articles you want to. I've been DOIN this for a long time and It WORKS. You'll NEVER have trouble with boiling fuel or vapor lock and the fuel system will work better than it was designed. ....just so you know, I was doin this before Barry Grant ever produced a carburetor.

I'm 44 and have been using and modifying Holleys since I was 16, well before BG was making carbs for sale commercialy too. So what. You'll never see boiling with a return style system as I described either. You are incorrect that the regulator is the exchange point, it's the fuel log. Your way would keep fuel flowing through the carb tops but at WFO, the fuel is being pushed into the carbs from the log anyway. Rob is right, a cool can will bring the fuel temps lower than a return system alone will, but of course keeping a cooler full of ice around is a hassle.

Why is it, that when someone questions you, you accuse them of reading too much or not enough? lol! I was a professional mechanic for 10 years from 84 to 94, At least one of my restorations are in a museum and at least two have been written up. I also drag raced succesfully and won 3 class championships in 3 years. I usually don't bring this stuff up because I'm not a braggart... until I get accused of getting all my info from Hot Rod. At least you didn't say Car Craft or Popular Mechanics, lmao!

Keep in mind I was tailoring my response to the OP's question and apparent technical abilities. Sheesh!

 

[ramcharger]

Also, one VERY important point that I left out. Notice the BG diagram. In order for the fuel to go back to the tank through the return line, it must flow into the carb, then CHANGE direction, go back through the SAME way it came in and out the return line. That's a lot of turbulance. Routing the return line in the fashion I outlined allows the fuel to flow the SAME direction the entire route of the fuel system.

What in the world are you talking about? The fuel flows from tank, filter, pump, fuel log, regulator then back to the tank. The carb uses fuel from the cool fuel in the log as it needs it, there is no change of direction whatsoever. The less fuel the carb is using, the more is bypassed into the tank keeping the fuel supply cooler at idle but there would always be fuel bypassing the regulator in all conditions. Unless, of course, the fuel pump is too small for the application. Get it?

I will grant you this, the top of the fuel bowls may run a bit cooler with your design but I would put the bypass regulator where it's supposed to be, on the fuel-out side from the carbs. On the effect of cooling the bowl tops with ambient temp fuel and what real effect it has I'll leave for you prove.

Jeez, getting on the tech forums these days is like talking to my sister's kids.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Why was it necessary to fling the insults? I was trying my damndest to have an intelligent discussion. I give the fuckin hell up.

 

[ramcharger]

Why was it necessary to fling the insults?

Why was is neccesary to accuse me of getting all my info from a magazine? Wtf?

If you responded intelligently I would have responded in the same. Respect is a 2 way street. Lighten the hell up on your responses to everyone and not just me.

When I hang out here I think of it as a community workshop where we all brought our junk and a 6 pack and are just here to have a good time, help those that need it and learn something from other members. That's why I have a very high tolerance for garage language, jokes, etc. I would never disrespect you in your garage while talking about your car or someone elses. I would not and do not tolerate anyone disrespecting me in my garage. I can take a joke though and I've never threw anyone out of my garage for making a joke at my expense...... but it better damn well be funny... :-D

BTW, I did say that at least you never said "I got my info from Car Craft", that would be fightin' words, lol.